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Debunking Non-Binary Genders

JohnSudo

November 14, 2016

13 upvotes

/r/MensRights

https://madskeptic.wordpress.com/2016/09/24/debunking-non-binary-genders-1/

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Post Information

Title	Debunking Non-Binary Genders
Author	JohnSudo
Upvotes	13
Comments	25
Date	November 14, 2016 11:36 AM UTC (9 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/5cvijt/debunking_nonbinary_genders/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/debunking-non-binary-genders.937580 https://theredarchive.com/post/937580

Comments

[–]JohnSudo[S] 2 points3 points4 points 9 years ago (15 children) | Copy Link

[–]The_Lone_Fish17 1 point2 points3 points 9 years ago (14 children) | Copy Link

[–]JohnSudo[S] 3 points4 points5 points 9 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

I don't see that as an error. Gender is a synonym for Sex. Attributes are assigned to a gender/sex based on societal expectations, but failing to match an attribute does not mean you are not that gender/sex. Being Male/Female doesn't require compliance with a specific attribute or even whole sets of attributes.

If I were to describe an apple to you as "A red spherical fruit that grows on trees and has a sweet taste." I would be correct, at least for a subset of apples, and in my town we may only grow sweet red apples. Now if you were to go the next town over, and they offered you what they called an apple, but while sharing all of the physical characteristics of the apples you know, it was green and was tart. Would you call this fruit an apple, or make up an entirely new word for it? No it is still an apple, and while you may name it differently for convenience, it does not change its inherent nature.

Conversely, I if you grew up in a society where all of the other Males/Men were aggressive and grew beards; but were yourself passive and clean shaven, it doesn't make you any less male. You would simply be Bob, the passive clean shaven Man.

[–]The_Lone_Fish17 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]JohnSudo[S] 2 points3 points4 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]xNOM 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago* (9 children) | Copy Link

[–]The_Lone_Fish17 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

[–]xNOM 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]The_Lone_Fish17 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]JohnSudo[S] 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[–]The_Lone_Fish17 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago* (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]JohnSudo[S] 1 point2 points3 points 9 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

But if i feel like the basic genders dont represent my thoughts accuratly incan categorize myself in a more fitting way.

And therein lies the main issue the article was attempting to point out I think.

For you to feel the need to identify other than the base binary, you have to define the base binary. Can you succinctly define male/masculine and female/feminine for me? Will I identify with your definition? Will anyone else? Ask 100 people to do the same and you will not find a singular definition. If there is no concrete definition of what male/female is, how can you not be it. If we are all unique, none of us are.

As I see it, if you have a Binary in Sex, you have a Binary in Gender. Gender is simply how you express your Sex. Being Male is how those of the Male sex act. Being Female is how those of the Female sex act.

If you are Male and want to wear a dress, you are just a Male wearing a dress. If you are Female and want to wear a dress, you are just a Female wearing a dress.

[–]The_Lone_Fish17 1 point2 points3 points 9 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Thats a solid arguement you got there and im feeling a little over my head but here i go!

Since everyone has their own definition of what masculine and feminine are then someone can decide they are not that deffinition, and in doing so they feel a need to classify themselves in a more appropriate way. The issue at its routes here seems to be the ambiguity that goes along with definitions of these terms. This would give a thought process somewhere aling these lines:

Masculine = role of a man, i believe a mans roles are X, i dont follow roles X therefore i am not a man, then what am i? Then comes the creation of new terms to allow people to better represent themselves.

In your last example replace "wear a dress" with "identify as a X" and it still works. If we accept gender as having no legal basis, and it is just a way of people organizing themselves then their is no issue.

[–]jbone664 2 points3 points4 points 9 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

For a term to have meaning, meaning must be consensus. Undefined (legally or not) gender roles are, and will always be arbitrary labels individually biased internally. I think that very reason negates their use in mainstream society as one cannot argue for/against undefined categories. For me I struggle to understand how someone can have an intellectual conversation about a topic (genders other than the binary) when the source, and all the subject is completely internally invented, unable to be defined and consensus cannot be reached for the reason that person A expects to be treated as gender (3) and person B has never heard of gender (3) and is incapable of getting a delineated discrete set of rules, values, and beliefs as to what gender (3) is, and why gender (3) cannot be included in either male/female.

Just my thoughts.

[–]The_Lone_Fish17 2 points3 points4 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Lice138 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

One thing that rubs me the wrong way about all this gender nonsense is the amount of double standards. Basically, any woman can get a sex change to make herself a man and act like an exaggerated stereotype of what she thinks a man should be like and everyone is supposed to worship "it" for that. Now if a man acts the same way its "toxic masculinity".

Then you have trans people- the ultimate double standard. Many trans people believe that they were born and raised in direct opposition to what they "really" are. So a female that was born a female latter decides to become a man, the claim is that they were born a "man" and had the surgery to reflect that. Great, but that would really make them cis. But cis is a bad word so in this case they would just swap out him/her so long as it suits the current argument.

[–]omegaphallic -1 points0 points1 point 9 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

[–]dagthegnome 4 points5 points6 points 9 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

I disagree. It has a lot to do with the war on men and masculinity.

It enables and encourages white-knighting men on university campuses and elsewhere who have been convinced they should be ashamed of their masculinity to wrangle out of it by claiming not to be men. Additionally, gender-fluid ideology is used as a weapon by gender ideologues to shame and malign men who choose to retain a binary, masculine identity in spite of their encouragement to pretend the gender binary doesn't exist.

Additionally, this genderfluid bullshit is born out of the feminist, Frankfurt School-inspired assertion that gender is a social construct. Since there are only two biological sexes, you can only believe there are more than two genders if you believe that gender is not tied to biological sex. This is of course a pile of crap, but it is one of the most powerful weapons in the ideological arsenal of anti-male feminists, since it enables them to label maleness and masculinity a "toxic" disease that needs to be cured, rather than the product of successful evolution that it is.

By debunking this flawed and idiotic ideology at every opportunity, we can help drive a nail into the coffin of the most man-hating arm of ideological feminism.

[–]omegaphallic 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]dagthegnome 1 point2 points3 points 9 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Frankly I think it's the "genderqueer" idiots who are transphobic.

There are people out there who genuinely have a need to transition from male-to-female or vice-versa, and there is a scientifically established biological and medical basis for it. I've known four such people, and they have all made their feelings clear to me using pretty much the same language. To paraphrase, they say that they will not feel at home with themselves, that they can't be comfortable in their own skins, until their biological sex reflects their gender identity. In other words, they understand intuitively that there is a biological basis for gender, and feel compelled to undergo enormous physically and mentally taxing surgical and hormonal changes in order to achieve this.

The fact that there are people who feel this way serves as proof, if proof were needed given the overwhelming body of evidence already available, that gender and biological sex are inextricably bound together. Since there are only two sexes, there can be only two genders.

People who call themselves "genderqueer" and who push gender-fluid ideology are guilty of co-opting the experiences of people who are genuinely undergoing a transition from male-to-female or vice versa to serve their own shallow narcissism. These are people who are, for the most part, physically and hormonally normal, who are undermining the genuine adversity faced by transgendered people by using their experiences as justification for their ideology, as they cast around looking for new reasons to award themselves points in the Oppression Olympics. They are nothing but spoiled brats, and they need to stop.

[–]omegaphallic 1 point2 points3 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]JohnSudo[S] 2 points3 points4 points 9 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]xNOM 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]sillymod[M] -1 points0 points1 point 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link