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Zoe Quinn's ex-boyfriend denies her claim that her case against him is over -- The Eron vs Zoe battle continues

atheist4thecause

February 13, 2016
52 upvotes
/r/MensRights
http://www.dailydot.com/lifestyle/zoe-quinn-harassment-charges-eron-gjoni/?tw=dd
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Post Information
Title Zoe Quinn's ex-boyfriend denies her claim that her case against him is over -- The Eron vs Zoe battle continues
Author

atheist4thecause

Upvotes 52
Comments 34
Date February 13, 2016 8:55 AM UTC
(10 years ago)
Subreddit Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/45ji5f/zoe_quinns_exboyfriend_denies_her_claim_that_her/
Archive Link https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/zoe-quinns-ex-boyfriend-denies-her-claim-that-her.956226
https://theredarchive.com/post/956226
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Comments

[–]BlightedArrow91 15 points16 points17 points 10 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

I honestly still can't believe this lying, cheating, manipulating, piece of scum is getting a movie written from her POV about the whole case as if shes some sort of victim, Eron was wronged 5 times over, the married dudes wife was wronged, gamers were wrong by her actions with gaming journalists, editors, and fellow programmers, yet NONE of their stories will ever be told on the big screen, such fucking bullshit. Anyone know a decent director who we could kickstart into making a counter-point biopic from eron or the wifes point of view? i'd honestly watch the fuck out of that.

[–]soalone34 7 points8 points9 points 10 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

Seriosuly, it is downright disgusting how someone who is beyond all reasonable doubt a bad person is being regarded as a hero and making 6k a month for doing absolutely nothing.

[–]Vance87 2 points3 points4 points 10 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

6k a month WTF??

[–]soalone34 4 points5 points6 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

She has a patreon and people donated that much monthly because she's oppressed

[–]Vance87 4 points5 points6 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

But doesn't The Patriarchy™ not allow that money to get to her? They really dropped the ball there

[–]mochacola 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

I actually think it's good it'll be getting a movie. Women will eat it up. Guys will be curious, and once the dig into it, they'll discover how deep the rabbit hole goes. It will raise awareness.

[–]BlightedArrow91 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

thus further opening the schism of us vs them mentality? fuck that.

[–]bertreapot 21 points22 points23 points 10 years ago (20 children) | Copy Link

Quinn also noted that she feared an adverse ruling given a recent similar court case related to Gamergate. In that case, the court dismissed criminal harassment charges filed by feminists against a Gamergate proponent, in part because the alleged harassment happened on Twitter.

Well, "in part because the alleged harassment happened on Twitter" isn't at all the reason Gregory Allen Elliott won. It is because the court felt the complainant's feelings of harassment were unreasonable, and that Elliott did not knowingly harass them. But at least we know Aja Romano didn't bother doing her research before writing this article.

[–]girlwriteswhat 12 points13 points14 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

There was actually a case of criminal harassment via Twitter prior to Elliott's case, in Canada, with a guilty verdict.

No one really heard about it because the victim wasn't an attention whore. She received threats, took them to the police and let them and the court handle it. Like a normal person.

[–]bertreapot 5 points6 points7 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Yes I think it is very obvious Guthrie and her ilk were very much acting as feminist activists in this trial. They certainly didn't reasonably feel threatened, outside of the current feminist paranoia that all men are evil abusers, and all women innocent, wilting flowers.

[–]franklindeer 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

It's also a completely different jurisdiction. Canadian case law has no impact on what happens in U.S courts.

[–]Azothlike 2 points3 points4 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Not true.

It has less impact than a US case, definitely. But the case decision in a precursor case so similar, in a culture so close and so similar, will undeniably factor into the first US judge's online harassment decision.

[–]atheist4thecause[S,🍰] -5 points-4 points-3 points 10 years ago (15 children) | Copy Link

I think you are being pretty harsh here. The article seems pretty balanced and factual to me, with many citations. While what you are saying is true, the fact that the harassment happened on the internet was part of the issue, too.

[–]bertreapot 6 points7 points8 points 10 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

I don't think I am being harsh. That was literally the judge's reasoning for acquitting Elliott. He did not say that the complainants weren't justified in being harassed because the alleged harassment took place over twitter.

[+]atheist4thecause[S,🍰] -7 points-6 points-5 points 10 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

You are way oversimplifying the ruling, and a part of not knowingly harassing them was the fact that all of this happened online. Had he actually followed her to a physical location, the ruling very well might have been different. In fact, him pinpointing her location one day was a big part of the argument against him. Btw, his middle name is spelled "Alan".

[–]franklindeer 7 points8 points9 points 10 years ago* (5 children) | Copy Link

The judge outright said that the complainants had engaged in similar behaviour and that their fear was not only not justified, but that their feeling of being "harassed" was likely the product of their own self righteousness. They believed that their political opinions were unchallengeable and this led to feeling that Elliot's disagreement was a form of harassment.

Furthermore, the fact that it happened online is totally immaterial. The judge said he believed that Elliot knowingly harassed the complainants (harassment being defined by two or more unwanted communications) but that their alleged fear was not reasonable or founded and that was why he was acquitted.

Edit: It should also be noted that there is a massive difference between in person harassment and online harassment when the standard that must be met for a criminal conviction includes a reasonable fear. Beyond that, he never stocked them in any way. They made their location at public events known to everyone on twitter and at one point Elliot included that in an insult. That's a far cry from stalking, especially when the complainants were often referring to Elliot in their communications on twitter, which he would obviously be aware of.

[–]atheist4thecause[S,🍰] -3 points-2 points-1 points 10 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

Yeah, and these reasons don't apply anymore if he had actually met her in person, so in part, a lot of it was that it was just online.

[–]franklindeer 4 points5 points6 points 10 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

Twitter is essentially a public forum. If there was a town square where a bunch of people showed up everyday to rant and he had said all the same things he said online and she had done the same, the result in court would likely have been the same.

Had this gone down in a space that is not considered public of course it might have been a different result but the fundamental reality is that the only real life comparison would have to be some kind of open public forum where similar communication is likely to occur.

[–]atheist4thecause[S,🍰] -4 points-3 points-2 points 10 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Twitter is essentially a public forum. If there was a town square where a bunch of people showed up everyday to rant and he had said all the same things he said online and she had done the same, the result in court would likely have been the same.

Someone can't harm you on the internet like they can in person. That's the difference.

Had this gone down in a space that is not considered public of course it might have been a different result but the fundamental reality is that the only real life comparison would have to be some kind of open public forum where similar communication is likely to occur.

You say "of course" and yet we have a few people responding in this post that deny just that.

[–]franklindeer 6 points7 points8 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Someone can't harm you on the internet like they can in person. That's the difference.

But there never was any harm or threats of harm. If he had said all the same things to these women in a public debate in a square the result would have been identical. Free speech doesn't change just because it goes offline.

[–]atheist4thecause[S,🍰] -3 points-2 points-1 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Well, I'm not going to get into a big argument where I have to explain why you are straw-manning me. Have a good one.

[–]Azothlike 6 points7 points8 points 10 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

Nah. He's not.

He just provided a direct example of how the article is not balanced.

Your assumptions of what was part of the issue and what isn't are noted. If the court didn't say it, you still don't get to imply they did.

[–]atheist4thecause[S,🍰] -5 points-4 points-3 points 10 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

There's a little something called deduction. lol

[–]Azothlike 4 points5 points6 points 10 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

Your assumptions of what was part of the issue and what isn't are noted. If the court didn't say it, you still don't get to imply they did.

[+]atheist4thecause[S,🍰] -6 points-5 points-4 points 10 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

Please go back and read the conversation to see what we are talking about. I'm certain you didn't.

[–]Azothlike 3 points4 points5 points 10 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Someone disagrees with me... oh no, time to say they need to go educate themselves, and imply my opinion on the matter has more merit!

[–]atheist4thecause[S,🍰] -4 points-3 points-2 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

You are arguing against an argument I didn't make which is why I told you that. Also, you probably shouldn't make things into quotes that aren't actually quotes.

[–]Azothlike 2 points3 points4 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

You are arguing against an argument I didn't make which is why I told you that.

No. I'm not.

Also, you probably shouldn't make things into quotes that aren't actually quotes.

You probably shouldn't take poor logical positions or take personal offense when people point out the biased flaws in your submission.

[–]atheist4thecause[S,🍰] 9 points10 points11 points 10 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

I find this to be the most important aspect of the situation:

Gjoni speculated to the Daily Dot that Quinn had "vacated [the gag order] in hopes of avoiding scrutiny from a higher court" after lawyers argued that it was unconstitutional. Gjoni has said previously that his goal in pursuing the appeal is to "try to make case law protecting other people (in Massachusetts anyway) from being unconstitutionally subject to similar orders."

[–]franklindeer 9 points10 points11 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Gjoni has said previously that his goal in pursuing the appeal is to "try to make case law protecting other people (in Massachusetts anyway) from being unconstitutionally subject to similar orders."

Noble of him since this is expensive and usually a task activist lawyers undertake, not clients.

[–][deleted] 6 points7 points8 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Note that many of us at /r/KotakuInAction pitched in to cover some (or most?) of the costs. He got help from a few prominent pro-free speech lawyers who helped for free or gave him a discount, but apart from that I think nobody else helped him.

[–]Lowkeypeepee 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

I'm not familiar with this story at all, what is this whole thing about? I'm confused.

[–]atheist4thecause[S,🍰] 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Honestly, you're better off Googling it. It was a major part of the GamerGate vs Feminism standoff. GamerGate basically wants to improve the ethics in journalism because there are a few journalists that basically control everything when it comes to media on new releases of games, and the ethics have been questionable. There have been some women, and Zoe Quinn is accused of this, where they have slept around for benefits.

I believe the argument goes that Eron was the bf that Zoe left (cheated on him IIRC), and he had evidence of the what, when, why, how, etc. and started talking about it. That caused Zoe to get a gag order put on him to shut him up. She accused him of all sorts of things, but it turns out, he was likely the victim of abuse by her, not her by him. Her gag order only worked to keep the victim silent in this case, and to protect the perpetrator. The judge basically refused to look at the evidence because he didn't understand the Internet, and just put the gag on anyways (or so I've read). Zoe Quinn was going after him for harassment, but it's thought she lied about a lot of stuff, and now she's dropped it, which the thinking is that she didn't want it exposed that she lied. She played the victim a lot about how people were harassing and threatening her, and blamed that on Eron's conversations on the Internet. Now she dropped the case, but interestingly enough, he's actually continuing on with the appeal. He doesn't want gags to be given out this easily anymore, and he wants a ruling to set precedent to protect future people. Men's Rights Activists should definitely be helping/supporting Eron in any way possible in order to prevent Feminists from using gag orders to shut up their political opponents in the future.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Metaphorically nail her ass the the wall, son.

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