Just a quick question.

joedapper · 2015-06-10T19:16:13+00:00

I'm not an MRA, but I follow it closely.

MRAs are not against women, LGBT, minorities, or anyone else. MRAs want to see an improvement in the situation of males in society - that is men of all orientations and men of all races and backgrounds. MRAs do not want to hurt the situation of women in society or return to some traditionalist gender roles for men and women - MRAs want to look ahead and find a better role for men in a modern context. MRAs are also concerned about the situation of men from minority backgrounds who often face terrible discrimination because of their gender.

MRAs are only against feminism when feminism actively seeks to make the situation of men in society worse, or when feminism opposes improving, or even recognising, the complex problems that male adults and children face. For example, MRAs are against feminists who campaign to maintain alimony laws, who campaign to divert funding away from improving male attainment in education or away from males who suffer abuse, or who campaign to withdraw or withhold legal rights from male adults or children.

MRAs are not opposed to feminists who agree that the situation of men in society needs particular attention these days, and who are not opposed to improve the situation of males in rich societies (unfortunately such feminists are not the majority).

tiqr · 2015-06-10T19:48:27+00:00

I don't identify as an MRA, but am very sympathetic to their cause. Like any social movement, MRAs hold a wide range of opinions on any given issue, but I can try to answer what the majority or 'average' MRA believes.

MRAs stand for equal rights and treatment by society for all people regardless of gender. In practice, this means addressing some of the legal and social issues men face. I look at MRAs as activists applying a "feminist" lens to male issues.

Are MRAs against feminism? It depends on how you describe 'feminism'. If you choose to define it as "wanting to establish equal rights for men and women", then MRAs are PRO-Feminism. In practice however, MRAs encounter a lot of resistance from feminists when trying to address men's issues. This has resulted in a lot of animosity towards the feminist movement.

As for Gay Rights, MRAs are very supportive. I don't think I've ever encountered a homophobic MRA. If you do stumble across one, then it's because you've encounter a homophobe who happens to support MRA issues, and not the other way around.

As for race issues, MRAs tend not to be very active. They do take issue with incarceration rates of men, an issue with disproportionately affects people of colour, but their interest has more to do with men in general, and not men of specific racial groups. There are already social movements for people of colour.

I can tell by your word choice that you don't take the movement very seriously. You ask if they support any "real" marginalized communities of people, suggesting that men aren't marginalized and therefore do not require any sort of social movement - so here's the pitch:

Gender politics isn't a zero sum game.

Just because women are held to unrealistic body standards doesn't mean that men aren't held to unrealistic standards for being able to provide for themselves and their families. (and they commit suicide in much higher numbers when they feel they have failed to meet those standards)
Just because women are under-represented in STEM fields, doesn't mean that men aren't under-represented in higher education on the whole (gender ratios on campuses are rapidly approaching 2:1!)
Just because little girls are called "bossy" for being assertive doesn't mean that little boys aren't diagnosed with "ADHD" for being active. (and under-perform in primary education as compared to girls by a wide margin)
Just because women are sexually assaulted without seeing their attacker going to prison, doesn't mean that men who are falsely accused of the same crime aren't similarly powerless.
Just because too many men refuse to take responsibility to care for and support their children, doesn't mean that there aren't also too many men who want that responsibility have to face an uphill battle in family courts.
Just because women face a myriad of unjust issues and challenges simply for being women, doesn't mean that men don't have problems of their own.

Feminism purports to deal with men's issues too - but they don't seem to make much progress. And let's be honest, if feminism was for men, why would so many feminists refer to men as "allies" instead of feminists? We spent generations trying to correct many of the injustice women face, and now it's become hard to imagine that men could have issues too. MRAs just want these issues to be acknowledged - they don't want supremacy over women, and they don't want to be helped at the expense of women. They just want men's issues to be considered and helped in parallel to women's issues.

joedapper · 2015-06-10T19:33:19+00:00

For me, MRA is a blanket term for a collection of issues facing men these days. The answers to your question cannot be answered by any one person, as no one speaks on behalf of all MRAs. We used to have a spokesperson, but John Wayne died years ago.

Me personally, I am against no particular group of people. (Though I have no problems hating on some individuals) Feminists are great(I used to date one), until they turn toxic and start man-hating. And even then, it's easier to "walk away" than to listen to that crap. But c'mon if I'm not out there beating the anti-woman drum, don't start beating the man-hating drums, ya know? I personally think the LGBTQIA(they need an easier acronym) folks have enough problems facing their daily lives, which don't affect mine at all, so they are off the radar. POC - you mean people of color? If so, then 1/2 of them fall under MRA anyhow. Skin color matters not, only sex/gender.

For me, it's about Father's Rights. There exists an illness in the court system of today where too many good men are simply being treated as paychecks. The courts have a built in bias against men wanting to be a part of their child's lives. Granted some have screwed this up and don't deserve it. Others could care less and don't want it. But as with any curve - the majority fall in the middle and are victims of the legal system.

I see the current situation as a backlash against those men 2 generations ago who simply would walk out on their families. Or divorced the mom leaving her and the kids on the street with no recourse. However, this isn't the case anymore. Though im sure men still up and leave - punish them individually - not make sweeping legal changes to punish every man - and that is where MRA comes in. Not every divorce/custody case is the same and yet the law assumes the side of the female in every case. This needs to stop. Family law needs to be abolished and fathers need to spend time with their kids, not just hand over a check every month and hope she spends it on the kids.

Men/Father's have rights to their children. Especially those who want to be that good male role model, who want to be there, who want to be a part of their kid's lives'. And don't those same children have the right to know their father?

Juan_Golt · 2015-06-11T04:48:32+00:00

what exactly do you stand for?

Parenting equality.

Non-gendered approaches to domestic violence.

Suicide prevention.

Are you against the Feminist?

No. I'm for the issues I mentioned. I criticize the views that are in opposition. If someone says 'women should be primary caregivers', I will disagree regardless of the label they choose.

Are against LGBTQIA rights?

No

What about rights for POC?

Minority men are at risk for many of the issues we advocate to fix.

for some reason when I think of MRA I only think of closed minded people only looking out for themselves.

We know that our position is an unpopular one. We advocate anyway. People only looking out for themselves don't advocate for societal change.

kettchan · 2015-06-11T00:43:21+00:00

Well op, you got a few quality answers. I hope this exercise has helped you reach a conclusion.

MRAs are regular people of all different backgrounds, races, religions, and political alliances. Generalizing any group based off hearsay is a poor way to go through life. I'm kind of an MRA, and my wife is a dyed in the wool Feminist. We don't fight over issues, because we never assume that the other is arguing under bad faith.

Tl;Dr: don't assume people you disagree with are opposing you out of malice or ignorance. Listen to their words as much as you want them to listen to yours.

azazelcrowley · 2015-06-11T11:10:47+00:00

I was just wondering what exactly do you stand for?

Mens human rights being recognized, equal rights and treatment of the genders, and advocating for this on issues where men are in a worse situation than women, which is a number of issues.

Are you against the Feminist?

Depends on what issues.

Who by the way only want to establish equal rights for men and woman.

Debatable. I'm inclined to think that's what they want. But it's no differen than if you truly want to go to germany and fly south from spain. No amount of intentions is going to cut it. I think most feminist approaches to gender equality are doomed for failure because of the theory, framework, and ideology they use. Whether they want equality or not doesn't factor into it. Most of them are not capable of delivering it, they are too gynocentric. Some feminists who reject oppressor-oppressed gender dynamics, reject gynocentrism, and try to address mens issues too are much better. They are, however, comparatively powerless.

Are against LGBTQIA rights?

Certainly not. There are numerous threads on these issues.

What about rights for POC? Nope.

Or any real marginalized community of people.

Men are marginalized in a number of issues. Check the sidebar. The fact you don't know about issues where men are marginalized is in itself a mens rights issue.

Because for some reason when I think of MRA I only think of closed minded people only looking out for themselves.

Probably because you're prejudiced against the movement before looking into it. To your credit you are here doing that, but i'm not exactly holding out any hope that you're going to change your mind.

I'm not here to fight, I even capitalized your acronym out of respect. I just want few answers.

Sure.

Title	Just a quick question.
Author	QuinnPar
Upvotes	0
Comments	7
Date	June 10, 2015 7:07 PM UTC (11 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/39bzl5/just_a_quick_question/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/just-a-quick-question.977987 https://theredarchive.com/post/977987

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