Stumbled across MGTOW unsure what to make of it - looking for discussion/dialogue

GenderNeutralLanguag · 2015-05-12T02:57:13+00:00

MGTOW is Men Going Their Own Way. What is confusing about MGTOW for most people is our association as a group with no common goal or direction. The unifying factor for MGTOW isn't where we are going, but our flight from relationships particularly marriage.

The institutions customs and social expectations around relationships have become toxic to men. Marriage and babies is the social norm. It is "Your way". Any direction a man takes is "His own way" with the ONE restriction of no marriage.

There is one really easy way for feminists to understand MGTOW. Gloria Steinem famously said "A woman needs a man like a fish needs a bicycle". MGTOW is men standing up and saying "I AM that bicycle. I need a woman like a bicycle needs a fish".

Lastly the big difference between MRA and MGTOW isn't really our views but our paths of advocacy. MRA think the system is fixable and worth fixing. MGTOW don't. Flee the burning building and start triage. We can worry about rebuilding once the fire has burned it's self out.

2015-05-12T06:38:47+00:00

There is a lot to said for MGTOW. I doubt society will tolerate it if it gets too big and entrenched. It would be the end of fatherhood and probably children. Society would have no future.

Look at Japan.

MRSPArchiver · 2015-05-12T00:15:39+00:00

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HisokaX · 2015-05-12T01:46:50+00:00

MGTOWs refuse to play the game by the rules of others. It's that simple. To some that means abstaining from romantic female companionship ( myself ), but to others it can mean the full gamut, up to and including marriage. Ultimately it's nothing more than the realization that your choices dictate your life.

Often, that awareness, combined with societal biases and pressures, drives men to disconnect emotionally, at the very least, from women.

Most discover a more content place beyond the bullshit.

2015-05-12T12:52:35+00:00

I heard the speaker in the video say that as a MGTOW he was a feminist as well

It's possible, it really depends on what they mean by "feminist". I get the impression they mean "women should have equal rights" type of feminism. Which is not mutually exclusive with MGTOW.

Some might argue that MGTOW could be described as feminism for men. They recognise that they don't have equal rights, but they've no interest in fighting for them, they see it as a lost cause. So it's more of a reactionary approach, it echoes the statement by Gloria Steinem:

"A woman needs a man like a fish needs a bicycle"

but switches the genders.

I get the sense that many of these guys are have had bad luck with relationships in the past

Yes, although not exclusively. There was a MGTOW age survey recently and a lot of the people on /r/mgtow are quite young. They've just seen what happens to men going through divorce or allegations of rape/dv and they want no part of it. It's basically a bunch of men saying, this whole marriage thing, fails the cost/benefit analysis. A lot of them feel that if they're not going to get married, they're not going to be able to have kids so why bother with women at all? what do they offer?

struggle with masculinity (however they perceive it or want it to be)

You could call it a struggle with masculinity, or you could say it's a rejection of the male gender role (another reason you might call it feminism for men)

and appear to be beta/submissive males

I disagree, these are males who have decided that they are going their own way, I don't see this as submissive (they're refusing to go societies way) or beta, as being beta would involve crumbling to women's whims.

Do they struggle to find their way among the male populace and are following MGTOW

MGTOW is something that a lot of men feel, men aren't stupid. They know the game is rigged against them, even if they don't know what MGTOW is, a lot of men identify with the attitude once the idea is explained. There are many others who hate it however, so announcing it in public is dangerous.

Are they feminists supporters under a new name?

In the sense that they want to remove male gender roles, perhaps, but its a correlation not a causation.

I have encountered a lot of beta/submissive males among male feminist supporters.

Without a doubt, we tend to refer to them as "white knights" and "manginas"

Is MGTOW made up of them?

I would say no - it doesn't fit with my understanding of MGTOW

I am seeking a dialogue to better understand what to make of MGTOW so i don't confuse their views with MRM

Same views, different solution.

MRM: Activism to resolve the gender inequalities

MGTOW: I'm just going to go my own way, limit all exposure i have to this bullshit and attempt to live my own life.

SarcastiCock · 2015-05-12T00:21:42+00:00

Cool story bro, who is this "feminist MGTOW" that you speak of? Seems abnormal, I've never encountered a feminist MGTOW or even a submissive MGTOW.

Why do you bring this discussion here instead of /r/MGTOW ?

Is there an alpha/beta quiz that one can take to determine one's social class?

Title	Stumbled across MGTOW unsure what to make of it - looking for discussion/dialogue
Author	HisokaX
Upvotes	2
Comments	13
Date	May 12, 2015 12:15 AM UTC (11 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/35npan/stumbled_across_mgtow_unsure_what_to_make_of_it/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/stumbled-across-mgtow-unsure-what-to-make-of-it.980550 https://theredarchive.com/post/980550

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