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The myth about women in science - this article from CNN exposes the shocking truth, there is and has been no anti woman discrimination, it was just a hoax by sad old feminist troll-women

headingtoshore

April 13, 2015
311 upvotes
/r/MensRights
http://www.cnn.com/2015/04/13/opinions/williams-ceci-women-in-science/
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Title The myth about women in science - this article from CNN exposes the shocking truth, there is and has been no anti woman discrimination, it was just a hoax by sad old feminist troll-women
Author

headingtoshore

Upvotes 311
Comments 23
Date April 13, 2015 10:39 PM UTC
(11 years ago)
Subreddit Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/32hutf/the_myth_about_women_in_science_this_article_from/
Archive Link https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/the-myth-about-women-in-science-this-article-from.983117
https://theredarchive.com/post/983117
Red Pill terms in post
feminist
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Comments

[–]Arby01 17 points18 points19 points 11 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

Wasn't there just a feminist study that claimed to have done the same thing last year and the male resume was rated as several thousand more in salary than the female resume?

How does the methodology compare?

[–][deleted] 36 points37 points38 points 11 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

This seemed like an interesting question so I did a little digging.

I expect this is the study you mean, it was all over the news.

At a glance it seems to be fairly well thought out, but if you look at the Supporting Information SI Materials and Methods which is referenced in the text of the study in the main link and then scroll down to the bottom, you can read the materials that were sent out.

Text of the cover letter for the resume is included in the document as an image, this makes it much harder to post here or in any news article, one actually has to re-type it. The text is as follows.

opening of the first paragraph

In the current phase of the study, we are interested in how undergraduate students are selected for competitive lab manager positions following their graduation and before they apply to doctoral programs.

From the third paragraph

After reading the applicant profile you will be asked to provide your opinions of the student, and offer them feedback as they make decisions about moving forward with theit career.

fourth and final paragraph in full

Remember the national database we have created contains information both from very qualified students, as well as students who are less competitive. Thus, we ask that you be prepared to offer honest feedback to the student you are selected to read about, regardless of how qualified they are. please do not hold back, and don't be afraid to be truthful-the success of the current project depends upon your ability to provide honest, straightforward feedback.

So you see, the study was not actually seeing what jobs people could get, it was asking for opinions. If respondents believed the feminist hype of the wage gap, for instance, then they would naturally rate expected values for female applicants at 70% of male applicants. If they believed women had it hard in STEM, they might rate a woman's likelihood of obtaining or doing well in a position less favorably than a mans.

All this much hyped study measured was the degree participants believed that women were discriminated against in stem, it did not measure any actual existing discrimination, subtle, but significant difference there.

[–]Arby01 1 point2 points3 points 11 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Awesome. Thank you.

Yes, that was the study I meant.

it was asking for opinions.

That I missed in any writeup of the original news about the study.

If respondents believed the feminist hype of the wage gap, for instance, then they would naturally rate expected values for female applicants at 70% of male applicants.

I have a hard time with that. I can't see that anyone would go "it's worth 50k/year, but since it's stem and women only make 80% let's say she would get 40k/year. "

At least, I can't see it unless there was a set up that pre-engineered the responses.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Well, if you look at the link, below the cover letter you can read the actual resume that was enclosed - same in all cases except for the male v female / john v Jennifer difference.

Look through these recent threads on the subject where people talk about university preferential grading for women, look at many recent studies showing the pattern all through school, from k - 12 - phd level, and understand that anyone in the academy would immediately understand from the low gpa and poor review presented that a female student would have to be a junkie, or never show up in class at all to be rated so low.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

A while back, Yale did a study where they sent CVs to eighteen science departments in six universities. They were identical except one was named John, the other was named Jennifer. John got 14% better pay and some other preferable results. I took issue with the study due to sample size. We don't get to know which universities it was, how many people were involved in the hiring process, etc., plus John and Jennifer were less than stellar applicants. Given the small sample size and the ambiguity of data, seemed likely to me to be a coinflip. Now that the sample's bigger, we get a better result.

[–]MonkeyCB -1 points0 points1 point 11 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Probably "experience" and "willingness to work" aka, open source contributions. Men are far more likely than women to contribute to open source, which shows a willingness to work, passion, and a certain type of experience women lack. I'm not sure on the numbers, but something like 97% of all open source code is written by men. And it doesn't help that women demand to be paid for open source work so that more women will contribute. It's like asking to be paid for community service so more women will get involved.

[–]rapiertwit 1 point2 points3 points 11 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

women demand to be paid for open source work so that more women will contribute

Who advocated for that?

[–]MonkeyCB 2 points3 points4 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

There's a few people who called for it over the years. Right now there's a program called "outreach" that is trying to pay women to get them into open source.

[–]MassSpecFella 7 points8 points9 points 11 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Im a scientist. Half my class were women in undergraduate. Half were women as a grad student. About 40% were women in industry. Half are women at the university I work at now. Purely anecdotal, but I don't see a problem of no women in science. If anything it's no Americans in American science. Seriously most scientists I know are non American (as am I)

[–]rapiertwit 8 points9 points10 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

We need immigrants to do the work Americans can't be bothered to do... you know, roofing, picking produce, and thinking.

[–]frigidjudge 5 points6 points7 points 11 years ago* (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]95wave 4 points5 points6 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

that's what I wanted to know, something is up. I am genuinely suspicious here.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Decisions regarding tone in corporate media environments are not made by reporters. The tone is controlled by selecting reporters and editors for their employment / assignment according to their political opinions.

The environment becomes a hive mind, those who can effectively sense 'what way the wind is blowing' will be rewarded by advancement and the hive as a whole will follow.

My friend we are witnessing the shifting of the zeitgeist. The manufacturing of a new consent, a new narrative.

[–]javi404 11 points12 points13 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

No surprise there. Just like there are very few women working on an oil rig, they just don't want those jobs.

[+][deleted] 11 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–]GeneralDogsbody 1 point2 points3 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

FI?

Edit — Financially Independent. I'm sleep deprived. Don't mind me, cognitive function is low today.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points6 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Anyone who has ever participated in a faculty search in a STEM field already knew this. It's nice to see it quantified, though

[–]anticommon 1 point2 points3 points 11 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Okay so I'm a stem major in a mostly male dominated field. I will tell you this, companies will hire a woman over me in a heartbeat. It (mostly) doesn't matter what the grades are or how many extra curriculars or internships you have done. And I'm honestly not even trying to bs about this. I'll get a job soon enough (graduating senior and all) but companies would look at an applicants sex and immediately go for a woman with the same or even lower qualifications without hesitation. Why? No women want to actually be in my field. Sure there are some, and the ones that are there are awesome at least half of the time or so. The others? The only reason they have managed to stay in the field is because of special treatment. And I know this first hand because they are my peers. I've gone out and worked with women who have been personable enough but have fucked up to the point where I don't understand how they could possibly be employed. But they are. And companies are willing to turn a blind eye to incompetence (ao long as it's not too aggredious) because they like having women onboard. It's fucked. I get it. I'm not complaining (especially considering the afformentioned fact that there are so few women in the field that it really doesn't make much of an impact on job placement) bit it just feels wrong honestly. Companies should look for people based on merit. Not just what's between their legs.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Just fyi, it is "egregious."

[+]iwanteditsobad -20 points-19 points-18 points 11 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

So that would explain the push for women to legally be able to sign documents for financial products and services back in the 1950s, and for the right to obtain a safe and legal abortion? And for women to be free of the threat of genital mutilation in a civilized country?

Women (and minorities) have been the target of discrimination for DECADES.

Anyone who claims otherwise is an ignorant DOLT.

[–]2wsy 11 points12 points13 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

So that would explain the push for women to legally be able to sign documents for financial products and services back in the 1950s, and for the right to obtain a safe and legal abortion? And for women to be free of the threat of genital mutilation in a civilized country?

Women (and minorities) have been the target of discrimination for DECADES.

Anyone who claims otherwise is an ignorant DOLT.

It seems like you answered to the wrong topic.

[–]LOOK_AT_MY_POT 2 points3 points4 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

OP: There is no anti-woman bias in STEM fields.

You: LOOK AT ALL THESE OTHER AREAS WHERE THERE IS DISCRIMINATION THOUGH!!! YOU'RE WRONG OP!!! THAT'S IGNORANT!!!

If anyone is ignorant here, it would be the person who can't understand a simple post title.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Correct me if I'm wrong, but haven't the 1950s been over for decades?

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