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The definition of rape was redefined...but still no solace for men.

Gahnima

November 16, 2014

7 upvotes

http://www.fbi.gov/news/pressrel/press-releases/attorney-general-eric-holder-announces-revisions-to-the-uniform-crime-reports-definition-of-rape

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Post Information

Title	The definition of rape was redefined...but still no solace for men.
Author	Gahnima
Upvotes	7
Comments	20
Date	November 16, 2014 8:57 PM UTC (11 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/2mhu0m/the_definition_of_rape_was_redefinedbut_still_no/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/the-definition-of-rape-was-redefinedbut-still-no.993331 https://theredarchive.com/post/993331

Comments

[–]Christinasanf 2 points3 points4 points 11 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]ugly_duck -1 points0 points1 point 11 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]DavidByron2 0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]eletheros 0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]ugly_duck -1 points0 points1 point 11 years ago (14 children) | Copy Link

[–]DavidByron2 0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (12 children) | Copy Link

[–]DavidByron2 2 points3 points4 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]ugly_duck -2 points-1 points0 points 11 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link

I saw your other comment, but it pretty much hits on the same thing here. I'll address it in this comment so we don't have two threads.

I'm not a lawyer, but the way I read the law, it seems to cover made to penetrate. Being made to penetrate covers:

The penetration
of the vagina or anus with any body part
without the consent of the victim

This FAQ seems to address that also:

Q: Has the definition of Rape changed for the NIBRS?

A: The definition of Rape for agencies reporting via the NIBRS has changed only slightly, since the NIBRS already allows for all factors relevant to the collection of data under the new definition of Rape. Under the new rape definition, the FBI UCR Program will aggregate three sex offenses in the NIBRS into Rape in Summary for publication in Crime in the United States. The definitions of the offenses are:

11A Rape (except Statutory Rape) The carnal knowledge of a person, without the consent of the victim, including instances where the victim is incapable of giving consent because of his/her age or because of his/her temporary or permanent mental or physical incapacity

I think carnal knowledge includes being penetrated and made to penetrate.

[–]ukreview 2 points3 points4 points 11 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]ugly_duck -1 points0 points1 point 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]DavidByron2 0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]ugly_duck 0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]DavidByron2 0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

They already sent out examples of the new rule to the states and excluded an example of a man raped by a woman. Someone did get a letter back from them where they stated that they thought men raped by women would be covered, but I think it's bullshit CYA if they never said that to the state offices who are the guys who actually send the data in.

I guess we'll see but as of now there's nothing with the new definition and it reads as excluding male victims on the plain language of it. If they had intended to cover male victims they would have worded it to do that and mentioned male victims of women --- like they did every other possible new scenario arising from the new definition --- in the press releases or the examples given to the states. So I'm pretty certain it's intended to exclude male victims in the same way that the CDC explicitly does. When the CDC was asked their answer was that feminists didn't want male victims of women included so they weren't.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago* (4 children) | Copy Link

The very first question in your source:

A: The old definition was “The carnal knowledge of a female forcibly and against her will.” Many agencies interpreted this definition as excluding a long list of sex offenses that are criminal in most jurisdictions, such as offenses involving oral or anal penetration, penetration with objects, and rapes of males. The new Summary definition of Rape is: “Penetration, no matter how slight, of the vagina or anus with any body part or object, or oral penetration by a sex organ of another person, without the consent of the victim.”

Nope nope nope! It covers the rapes of males in that rape means penetration, so male on male rape, rape with an object, etc.

Edit: I spoke about this with a lawyer friend in 2012, he agreed with me, however that PDF has a phone number and email address so... you could ask.

[–]ugly_duck -2 points-1 points0 points 11 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points1 point 11 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]ugly_duck 0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points1 point 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

If you feel the need to contact the FBI over an internet debate, go ahead.

Someone's feeling passive aggressive today.

However, you'll need a stronger argument than "my friend is a lawyer."

And selectively ignorant; fuck my friend, in 2012 I was the only one reading it the way you are, and was attacked for it. You are arguing my position, I'm arguing the dominant position, I win either way (life is good). Anyway, now that we're three years in I'm ~~calling~~ emailing the FBI (woman on the phone asked me to) because this shit needs to be over.

While I'm waiting though:

The press release says that this definition includes any gender of victim or perpetrator.

The press release says that this definition was updated to include the rape of males.

Neither of these points support the argument, the inclusion of sodomy alone covers them.

The FAQ from the FBI states that it will aggregate the sex offense rape, defined as carnal knowledge without consent, into this new definition.

Carnal knowledge means penetration, more specifically vaginal penetration, but penetration nonetheless; also not supportive of the argument.

So, unless the majority have changed their position, it's our reading comprehension against the world; for everyone's sake, I hope we're right.