Are Men Irrational For Opting Out Of Education, Careers And Families?

2014-10-22T02:50:50+00:00

Why aren't men responding to economic signals?

I think the greatest, most astonishing fact that I am aware of in social science right now is that women have been able to hear the labor market screaming out ‘You need more education’ and have been able to respond to that, and men have not, and it’s very, very scary for economists because people should be responding to price signals. And men are not. It’s a fact in need of an explanation.

Michael Greenstone, M.I.T. economics professor

... To start with, they very much should be frightened by the shrinking wage gap, but not because men are ignoring market signals or are somehow unfit for the modern economy. In fact, the problem is that men are slowly but surely starting to respond to market signals stemming from our radical overhaul of the family structure in recent decades.

Not too many decades ago the US and the rest of the western world had marriage as the central organizing philosophy for family structure. This was a structure which created an incentive for men to produce more than they required for their own consumption and encouraged them to take on the responsibility of a family. This system not only benefited children, but men and women as well. Women benefited from the protection and resources husbands provided to them and the children they bore. Men were provided the only socially and morally sanctioned access to sex as well as the prestige and satisfaction which came from leading a family. Society as a whole benefited because children had the advantages of growing up in an intact home and men were willing to work extremely hard to produce the required surplus.

... While men were motivated under the old family structure, they absolutely detest the new child support system of family formation. Under the old system a man who married before fathering children could reasonably expect access to his children and the opportunity to direct their upbringing (in concert with his wife). Under the new system the children are de facto considered the property of the mother, whom the state compels him to pay so she can direct their upbringing generally as she sees fit. Since the new system has removed the incentive for men to work hard to provide for their families, it has to rely instead on threats of imprisonment to coerce men into earning “enough” income. Where men used to take pride in the birth of their children and celebrate with cigars, large numbers of men now fear fatherhood more than anything.

... The hard earned lesson of the twentieth century was that incentives work far better than coercion when it comes to generating economic value. Yet despite winning the cold war the US and the western world has quietly elected to move from an incentives based family/economic structure (marriage) to one based on coercion (child support).

General_Fear · 2014-10-22T04:25:35+00:00

Once a man decides that he does not want to marry, there is no reason to knock yourself out in a career. A 6 figure income. A 7 figure income. That's for the married guy. He is the provider. He needs to put cupcake in the biggest home in the surburbs. She needs a new car to get to work. Regular gifts. Then comes the kids.

But if you decide that you don't want to get married. Then how much money do you need. Really? You can skate along at the bottom. You can get by. Being dressed to the nines, having a condo, a new car. Looking sharp. That is what a guy does to get laid.

But if you don't want a wife. Then all you need is a little job that pays the bills and you are all set.

ShitlordAndProud · 2014-10-22T09:04:46+00:00

No they are not irrational. Women don't love them any more. The only reason they wanted lots of money in the first place was so that women would love them.

Come to think of it, who wants to be loved for their money anyway?

exo762 · 2014-10-22T11:53:43+00:00

This article is fascinating. It discusses gender roles without falling into narrative of traditionalists or gender ideologues (feminists or MRAs).

I kinda like it.

imbecile · 2014-10-22T07:05:29+00:00

The lack of ambition in men is not only because marriage isn't really an incentive anymore. There used to be this thing called bachelor or playboy lifestyle too, where unmarried men work hard and play hard, and get themselves the toys they like.

But there is far too much wealth tied up at the top and not "trickling down" of course. Wealth accumulation is a one way street towards more concentration. Men are realizing there is no real chance to get at any piece of that big pie, no matter how hard they try.

But why does this primarily affect men, and not women in their ambition and desire to go to college? In a word: hypergamy. Going to college is the best avenue for women to marry up. The fields women overwhelingly choose are also a big indicator of that: they are more for the sake of going to college than to build a career with it.

And, that colleges are made into actively hostile environments for young men doesn't help either. But historically strife and hardship wasn't really a big deterrent for men, as long as there was some chance to find success in it.

avantvernacular · 2014-10-22T12:28:10+00:00

As long as our societal strategy to combat men's indifference is blame, shame, and punish rather than empathy, understanding, and compassion, this problem will get worse.

warspite88 · 2014-10-22T11:48:17+00:00

great article and it is why feminism thrived for decades because traditionlists, like lazy elitists, threw men under the bus and are now wondering why men are going their own way.

society expected so much of men and men delivered and the reward for men was respect and power within family and community. now with feminism that every woman compete against men, and traditionlists telling men to just suck it up and deal with it, doing nothing to help men in the process. our society has taken away any benefit to being that sacrificial , selfless man for women and society.

so many men are saying screw it and that is exactly what needs to happen to get traditionlists off their fat lazy asses to actually fight feminism and help men, and to show feminism for the scam it is because these brave new free women are doing next to nothing about picking up the sacrifice and serve portion of power they are only taking the bits that benefit them.

when atlas shrugs and the princess no longer gets fed, that is when she will notice how important he is.

exo762 · 2014-10-22T06:51:21+00:00

I know lots opting out of families (I'm one). I don't see so many without jobs.

Yeah, Ill keep buying houses, one day the rent will pay for my retirement in where ever the fuck I please.

2014-10-22T13:42:34+00:00

I got incredibly lucky..... 3 days after my ex-wife moved out I had divorce papers for her to sign. Whilst she felt guilty which of course has subsequently worn off... I kept my retirement intact.

I say I'm lucky and I have the kids the majority and yet I STILL pay her several hundred dollars a month. So far as I can tell the kids are her property and I'm renting them from her. Yet this deal is not as bad as it might have been!

My son will get reality oriented advice on marriage. It's a one way contract that favors the high earner and it's a terrible idea to sign it.

wazzup987 · 2014-10-22T15:29:52+00:00

IT was a good article until that last paragraph. Ugh that tradionalist nonsense was hard. I am sure it was because of the reader base he had to appeal to. Who says marriage is a good thing to begin with. Fuck marriage. Women being chaste a good thing? fuck no i want the sexuality devalued to the point where it is equal or close to equal of that of man.

Title	Are Men Irrational For Opting Out Of Education, Careers And Families?
Author	MHRA_Leander
Upvotes	31
Comments	20
Date	October 22, 2014 2:15 AM UTC (11 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/2jyc6m/are_men_irrational_for_opting_out_of_education/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/are-men-irrational-for-opting-out-of-education.994414 https://theredarchive.com/post/994414

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