I've been following high quality relationship mentors for years and this quote by Chris Perry in his "You Are Good Enough" group really stuck out to me:

"She's toxic right? But was she toxic before you lied to her about another woman? Was she toxic before you took advantage of the trust she had for you? Was she toxic before she kept forgiving you for hurting her over and over? She wasn't toxic. You drained [the fuck] out of that woman, you hurt that woman, you lie to her and continue to hurt her and make her question her worth, then you expect her to be the same person she was in the beginning? Now she's "crazy" for being this way?"

I know this can work both ways.

I find that a lot of Red Pillers were emotionally and mentally dishonest when they dished out stuff like this because vital things like this were deemed 'unnecessary' when retelling the story. It was just always "she's toxic" or some other variation of similar feelings.

Obviously I'm not saying to minimize someone’s experiences of abuse and I err on the side of believing victims 99% of the time (some I have been admittedly skeptical of just based on these people's long history of pathological lying).

However, now that a lot of Red Pill behaviours have been exposed as being not only harmful to the man's mental health, but also the women they use it on, I wonder how many of these stories are just shared only when she just finally had enough, her normal suppression went offline, and she couldn't help but react after 100 pokes that made her insecure about things she once loved about herself?

I've never had so many men be in my life and dishonestly discount all of my good than I did when Red Pillers and MGTOWers found me. It was soul-crushing.

Have any of you looked back and realized that while you may have not been the main problem, you definitely didn't help and contributed to making it worse?

Maybe you were the main problem. Maybe things you couldn't see then, but became aware of as you got older and more mature?

Was Red Pill really a saving grace for you?