I am so happy to have found this sub because I've noticed lots of the ideas on here are values about dating that I always had but maybe sometimes got lost because society told me otherwise.

One of those values is that men SHOULD pay for dates. In fact if he is HVM he will feel obligated to! He will know that it is the right thing to do because you went on a date he asked you to come on. I actually feel awkward if a man doesn't pay for a date!

I have an example from my own personal experience: I once dated two guys months within each other that had a lot of similarities. They both had almost the exact same job, lived at home (we were around college age so I think this would be more acceptable at that time), and the same age (their birthdays were actually like ten days apart! They were a couple years younger than me). But one turned out to be a ZVM while the other I stayed with for a while. I think he was still closer to a LVM looking back but maybe with some experience he could become a HVM. I broke up with him for many reasons including some that just made him a LVM.

But what made them different? Their attitudes with treating a lady!

The ZVM not only had a mental illness that he didn't care properly for but was also a manipulative narcissist. There were some red flags I should have seen if I had known better but one in particular really stands out which was his reluctance to pay for dates. I could tell sometimes he didn't really want to pay and even wanted to go on car dates (gross) because he "couldn't" pay. But he lived at home and had a decently paying job! On maybe our third date, I asked if he wanted to split the bill. I think I was just trying to be nice and he had paid for a lot of things by this time so I thought it was fair. He said "if that's what you want" and so we split the bill. It's no wonder he turned out to be a disrespectful ZVM!

The other guy completely refused for me to even pay half for a meal THE ENTIRE TWO YEARS WE DATED! Now I do admit he eventually let me pay for some things like ice cream if I said I wanted to treat him but he never expected it and was also incredibly thankful when I did.

So if any men read this sub, YES YOU SHOULD BE PAYING FOR DATES! I am sick of trying to convince men that is the respectful thing to do and should be expected 100%. If you think a girl should pay, we don't want to go on a date with you so let us know.

Ladies, if he doesn't want to pay, expects you to go dutch, or tells you to buy drinks after he has paid for a meal... RUN!