This is bullshit. All of the longest living populations on Earth (blue zones) eat primarily carbs from yams, rice, grains, legumes, etc. An example for your search would be Okinawa. There are many other blue ones if you are interested. The process of turning carbohydrates into fat to store in the body is called denovolipogenesis. It's a big word, I know, but your body will use the carbs to fuel the brain, muscles (glycogen), and organs before it will store it as fat. Fat, on the other hand, contains 9 calories per gram (vs carbs 4) and is stored immediately in the presence of carbohydrates because your body will use the carbs for energy and the fat will be stored. Obviously, you could circumvent that by having a low intake of carbs, (after all, weight loss is all about calories- you could lose weight on nothing but oreos) but we know for fact that high fat diets are bad for the brain, energy levels, and most importantly, arterial function. The United States eats the most meat of any country on Earth. We also have the most heart disease of any country on Earth. We are number 1 world wide in both these regards, yet we are 18th in rate of obesity. In other words, even though 17 countries are fatter than us, which we know is a risk for heart disease, we still top them all in our leading cause of death. Why? Because heart disease directly scales with overall meat consumption. in the United States you have a 50% chance to die of heart disease, even though only 30% of us are obese. So I know you gave your 2 cents, but I think Dr. Kim Williams, former president of The American College of Cardiology, gave us at least 50 cents when he famously said "There are two types of cardiologists. Those who are vegan, and those who haven't read the data."
Anecdotal claims are dangerous. Look at the science, GYOW, and enjoy life. But do some research before you hand out change next time.
(Btw women have a higher obesity rate than men in the US. 30% vs 40%) thought that might be a fun fact to add to a boring read. If you did read this, thanks! And eat your damn carbs!
You mean science? Are you going to insist you know more than the president of the American College of Cardiology? I site multiple sources for all my claims, you site none. But mine is propaganda. You didn't read a single source did you? :(
Yes i agree carbs can be incorporated in a healthy way
Great, but I don't care. Science doesn't care whether or not you agree with it. This isn't a debate. If I said to you an apple will fall out of my hand when I drop it, I don't care whether or not you agree. Doesn't change the fact.
The real cause of the American health epidemic is the crazy intake levels of sugars (mostly high fructose corn syrup) and industrial fats combined with laziness.
Sugars, fats, and laziness all lead to obesity, which yes, is a risk factor. I'm not arguing that. I even stated in my post. Eating meat is another risk factor, completely separate from obesity. I sited 2 different sources for you, 3 if you count the Blue Zone study. The blue zones can be compared to other countries that intake little sugar, exercise a lot, and consume meat. The blue zones win. In science, we call this a Variable. We can control for variables in the studies. You said sugar and laziness is the problem. I agree it's a problem. But it's not THE problem. When a vegan and a regular omnivore are controlled for BMI, aerobic exercise, and smoking, leaving just meat eating as the variable, it undoubtedly shows that meat intake increases risk of heart disease, regardless of the other variables. I hope this was helpful for you.
Take all "studies" with a grain of salt as they are typically funded by the government indirectly, or the corporate interests who sell the products that the studies favor.
Agreed. None of the works I sited were industry funded. We don't accept industry funded studies in any form. If a cigarette company funds a study that concludes cigarettes are healthy, that's a bogus study. I'm glad you brought this up. The meat, dairy, and egg industry IS the corporate insterest. They bring in about $900 Billion annually, and spent about $20 million just in lobbying political campaigns in 2016. They spent many more millions funding bogus studies, like you said. Here is an example of a Dairy funded study that says cheese is good
So in conclusion, I agree with your last quote. Look carefully at the science. It will draw you to the inevitable conclusion if you chose to investigate objectively. Peace.
I never claimed to be all knowing, you're the one coming across that way
I never claimed that you claimed to be all-knowing. That's another straw man. I'm glad I'm coming across that way.
The two studies you linked are from the U.S. government
😂😂 One of them is a study PROMOTING cheese. I literally said it's funded by the industry. It was SUPPOSED to be a bad example. Lol. The other isn't even a study. It's just what the meat, dairy, and egg industry reported themselves. They said they brought in about $900 billion. This is hilarious. Lol.
the same government that gave us, through science, the food fat pyramids
Exactly. The only reason milk is in the food pyramid is because of industry lobbying. There is no evidence that milk is necessary.
but ironically here is a study, also from the national institute of health, which supports a low carb diet
I can poke so many holes in this trash study it's ridiculous. Ready? Go! Pulsus, the FOR PROFIT organization that conducted the study, is on a list of predatory for profit scientific journal publishers. I can read your paragraph here and see you don't do much research. The National institute of health isn't the group that conducted the study, they just categorize it on the web for you. pulsus did the study. Look them up... Let's get into the actual study. It takes fat people, that eat alot of meat, and keep them eating alot of meat, but with less carbs. This means they eat less calories. This makes them lose weight, which reduces cholesterol. This proves nothing but obesity's association with heart disease, which I already acknowledged. What we are talking about is Meat's association with heart disease. so please link me to a study that proves that meat does not associated in any way with heart disease. This task will be impossible.
I'm just saying do your own research, question everything (including science) and don't take an internet strangers diet advice.
I agree with this entire statement. Look in the mirror. The science is clear.
The conclusion section clearly states that "red meat does not significantly increase cardiovascular risk when it is assumed in recommended doses".
Read the next couple lines. You seemed tostop that quote early. Also, the recommend dose is 4 oz. That's much smaller than any steak most men get. ALSO, they say in this dose, 4 oz or less, it doesn't ~significantly~ raise cholesterol. It still raises it. If you would have read the study you would have seen it, but you just skimmed the conclusion.
Some unsolicited advice (which may only piss you off): zero meat-eaters will be convinced by a holier-than-thou attitude. Keep eating vegan if you want to, but being pushy about it in the manosphere is not going to convert anyone.
All I'm doing is showing the science, my guy. Nothing else to it. Quit projecting.
There are clear detriments to the male physiology by consuming excess phytoestrogens, such as those in soy
Many guys are aware of this, aware of our evolutionary history, and continue to eat meat
It's true many are aware of this, but it's also true that it's false. So... Yeah. Unfortunate. As for our evolutionary history... Let's learn! You have what is called Amylase in your saliva. Meat eating animals do not. Amylase digests starches such as potatoes, rice, etc. Your stomach acid is about 8x weaker than your dogs. It's about equal to a cow's. You have what is called a long intestine. Popular in other herbavores such as cows, other great apes (we are great apes), llamas, horses, deer, etc. You don't create your own vitamin C. Neither do all the other herbavores. Cats and dogs and wolves and lions do. Your jaw can hinge from side to side. This is also in apes, llamas, cows, pigs, etc. It's a herbavore trait. Your dogs jaw cannot go left or right. It's meant to grind fibers with the molars you have, which is also and herbavore trait. Noticing a pattern yet? You have no claws, you have no canine teeth, your have shitty sense of smell and hearing, you are slower than every predator and most all prey, and your arteries clog when you consume meat. Lions arteries don't. Humans have been hunting effectively for about 10,000 years. That is not enough time to cultivate any meaningful biological evolution. I hope we got that silly evolutionary argument out of the way.
Somewhat related to health and veganism: I understand the factory farming issue, and plan to go on my first hunting trip this year.
What does this even mean? You are going to live off the land? Lol. How about you buy some beans at the supermarket. They are good for you and your arteries.
Grain-fed beef is often fed GMO corn and soy, which is not a part of a cow's natural diet (grass). These cows get sick and need drugs to compensate for the illnesses associated with suboptimal diet.
Now you did point out an issue with factory farming, which is good, but your solution was to go hunting. I don't see how that has anything to do with factory farming. Switching to a plant based diet uses 1/8 the land so no brutal factory farms, less deforestation and methane production, less heart disease, and better erections.
If that last one doesn't convince you, you're helpless.
Sorry I have one more reply. I find it funny that you know more about good cow nutrition than human nutrition. So I'll take your quote and and humanize it, maybe you'll see the problem !
Grain-fed beef is often fed GMO corn and soy, which is not a part of a cow's natural diet (grass). These cows get sick and need drugs to compensate for the illnesses associated with suboptimal diet.
Meat-fed humans are often fed meat and dairy, which is not a part of a human's natural diet (starch). These humans get sick (heart disease) and need drugs to compensate for the illnesses associated with suboptimal diet. (Statins and insulin)
Are you seriously claiming that the human diet does not naturally contain meat?
Yes. Populations that eat less meat have better health.
It's as if the length of our intestines, and the type of teeth we have no bearing in your claim.
No, it's not as if that. Of course they have bearing. They match other herbavores. Along with the literally dozens of other arguments I made you failed to address. Science is a bitch, huh?
We evolved as omnivores
He says with absolutely no source. After I gave dozens of sources and biological traits, your argument is "we evolved as omnivores." Good one.
If you're going to continue being cheeky/pushing your vegan agenda,
I am. It's a great agenda! Health of our people and our plane! All without hurting animals. You should find a good agenda as well.
please find someone else to troll.
I'm actually convinced you are the troll. You failed to respond to literally every point in my argument. I learned a lot about you.
You are too dense to change, even when proof is in front of your eyes.
People all come to MGTOW for different reasons, but I sense you're just here because your to stubborn to ever be compatible with another human being.
Absolutely. Without a doubt. However, you replied way too fast to have read all the sources I cited. Please go read those yourself. Make Dr Kim Williams proud :)
Ah, another instant reply. Seems you still haven't read any material. Makes sense. If you do ever decide to look at the science and you won't come to any other conclusion.
[–]kupakuma53 points54 points55 points (53 children) | Copy Link
[–]cobaltcolander16 points17 points18 points (49 children) | Copy Link
[+][deleted] [recovered] (25 children) | Copy Link
This is bullshit. All of the longest living populations on Earth (blue zones) eat primarily carbs from yams, rice, grains, legumes, etc. An example for your search would be Okinawa. There are many other blue ones if you are interested. The process of turning carbohydrates into fat to store in the body is called denovolipogenesis. It's a big word, I know, but your body will use the carbs to fuel the brain, muscles (glycogen), and organs before it will store it as fat. Fat, on the other hand, contains 9 calories per gram (vs carbs 4) and is stored immediately in the presence of carbohydrates because your body will use the carbs for energy and the fat will be stored. Obviously, you could circumvent that by having a low intake of carbs, (after all, weight loss is all about calories- you could lose weight on nothing but oreos) but we know for fact that high fat diets are bad for the brain, energy levels, and most importantly, arterial function. The United States eats the most meat of any country on Earth. We also have the most heart disease of any country on Earth. We are number 1 world wide in both these regards, yet we are 18th in rate of obesity. In other words, even though 17 countries are fatter than us, which we know is a risk for heart disease, we still top them all in our leading cause of death. Why? Because heart disease directly scales with overall meat consumption. in the United States you have a 50% chance to die of heart disease, even though only 30% of us are obese. So I know you gave your 2 cents, but I think Dr. Kim Williams, former president of The American College of Cardiology, gave us at least 50 cents when he famously said "There are two types of cardiologists. Those who are vegan, and those who haven't read the data."
Anecdotal claims are dangerous. Look at the science, GYOW, and enjoy life. But do some research before you hand out change next time.
(Btw women have a higher obesity rate than men in the US. 30% vs 40%) thought that might be a fun fact to add to a boring read. If you did read this, thanks! And eat your damn carbs!
[–]WikiTextBot1 point2 points3 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]Phuc_Mee 0 points1 point2 points (8 children) | Copy Link
[+][deleted] [recovered] (7 children) | Copy Link
You mean science? Are you going to insist you know more than the president of the American College of Cardiology? I site multiple sources for all my claims, you site none. But mine is propaganda. You didn't read a single source did you? :(
Great, but I don't care. Science doesn't care whether or not you agree with it. This isn't a debate. If I said to you an apple will fall out of my hand when I drop it, I don't care whether or not you agree. Doesn't change the fact.
Sugars, fats, and laziness all lead to obesity, which yes, is a risk factor. I'm not arguing that. I even stated in my post. Eating meat is another risk factor, completely separate from obesity. I sited 2 different sources for you, 3 if you count the Blue Zone study. The blue zones can be compared to other countries that intake little sugar, exercise a lot, and consume meat. The blue zones win. In science, we call this a Variable. We can control for variables in the studies. You said sugar and laziness is the problem. I agree it's a problem. But it's not THE problem. When a vegan and a regular omnivore are controlled for BMI, aerobic exercise, and smoking, leaving just meat eating as the variable, it undoubtedly shows that meat intake increases risk of heart disease, regardless of the other variables. I hope this was helpful for you.
Agreed. None of the works I sited were industry funded. We don't accept industry funded studies in any form. If a cigarette company funds a study that concludes cigarettes are healthy, that's a bogus study. I'm glad you brought this up. The meat, dairy, and egg industry IS the corporate insterest. They bring in about $900 Billion annually, and spent about $20 million just in lobbying political campaigns in 2016. They spent many more millions funding bogus studies, like you said. Here is an example of a Dairy funded study that says cheese is good
So in conclusion, I agree with your last quote. Look carefully at the science. It will draw you to the inevitable conclusion if you chose to investigate objectively. Peace.
[–]Backstabbin-ghost3 points4 points5 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]Gagedemoss3 points [recovered] | Copy Link
[–]Phuc_Mee 0 points1 point2 points (4 children) | Copy Link
[+][deleted] [recovered] (3 children) | Copy Link
I never claimed that you claimed to be all-knowing. That's another straw man. I'm glad I'm coming across that way.
😂😂 One of them is a study PROMOTING cheese. I literally said it's funded by the industry. It was SUPPOSED to be a bad example. Lol. The other isn't even a study. It's just what the meat, dairy, and egg industry reported themselves. They said they brought in about $900 billion. This is hilarious. Lol.
Exactly. The only reason milk is in the food pyramid is because of industry lobbying. There is no evidence that milk is necessary.
I can poke so many holes in this trash study it's ridiculous. Ready? Go! Pulsus, the FOR PROFIT organization that conducted the study, is on a list of predatory for profit scientific journal publishers. I can read your paragraph here and see you don't do much research. The National institute of health isn't the group that conducted the study, they just categorize it on the web for you. pulsus did the study. Look them up... Let's get into the actual study. It takes fat people, that eat alot of meat, and keep them eating alot of meat, but with less carbs. This means they eat less calories. This makes them lose weight, which reduces cholesterol. This proves nothing but obesity's association with heart disease, which I already acknowledged. What we are talking about is Meat's association with heart disease. so please link me to a study that proves that meat does not associated in any way with heart disease. This task will be impossible.
I agree with this entire statement. Look in the mirror. The science is clear.
[–]WikiTextBot1 point2 points3 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]Phuc_Mee -1 points0 points1 point (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]Gagedemoss2 points [recovered] | Copy Link
[–]cobaltcolander0 points1 point2 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]Gagedemoss2 points [recovered] | Copy Link
[–]FormOfTheChair 0 points1 point2 points (12 children) | Copy Link
[+][deleted] [recovered] (4 children) | Copy Link
Read the next couple lines. You seemed tostop that quote early. Also, the recommend dose is 4 oz. That's much smaller than any steak most men get. ALSO, they say in this dose, 4 oz or less, it doesn't ~significantly~ raise cholesterol. It still raises it. If you would have read the study you would have seen it, but you just skimmed the conclusion.
All I'm doing is showing the science, my guy. Nothing else to it. Quit projecting.
No, there aren't. The science does not support your shitty claims. The only studies that do are dairy industry funded pseudoscience. 1. Soy does not change hormone levels in men. 2. 47 studies conclude no change in hormone levels from phytoestrogen. 3. Soy doesn't effect these 220 women after a two year trial. so no, science does not agree with your claim, unfortunately. Although drinking milk from the literal breast of a mother that just gave birth, I'm sure, contains no estrogen at all. On top of soy not causing any problems with hormones, it's actually really good for you. It's also great for your heart, which is the most likely thing to kill you in the US. (Heart disease.) So now that you've learned that soy is safe for your hormones and good for your health, let's learn about our evolution and biology.
It's true many are aware of this, but it's also true that it's false. So... Yeah. Unfortunate. As for our evolutionary history... Let's learn! You have what is called Amylase in your saliva. Meat eating animals do not. Amylase digests starches such as potatoes, rice, etc. Your stomach acid is about 8x weaker than your dogs. It's about equal to a cow's. You have what is called a long intestine. Popular in other herbavores such as cows, other great apes (we are great apes), llamas, horses, deer, etc. You don't create your own vitamin C. Neither do all the other herbavores. Cats and dogs and wolves and lions do. Your jaw can hinge from side to side. This is also in apes, llamas, cows, pigs, etc. It's a herbavore trait. Your dogs jaw cannot go left or right. It's meant to grind fibers with the molars you have, which is also and herbavore trait. Noticing a pattern yet? You have no claws, you have no canine teeth, your have shitty sense of smell and hearing, you are slower than every predator and most all prey, and your arteries clog when you consume meat. Lions arteries don't. Humans have been hunting effectively for about 10,000 years. That is not enough time to cultivate any meaningful biological evolution. I hope we got that silly evolutionary argument out of the way.
What does this even mean? You are going to live off the land? Lol. How about you buy some beans at the supermarket. They are good for you and your arteries.
Hey look at that, you're correct.
Shit. You had me fooled for a second. Grass fed beef is more unsustainable that factory farmed beef already is! It also still has Saturated fat, cholesterol, carnitine, and heme iron. Class in session! Methane is much worse for the planet than CO2. Grass fed cows produce about 4x more methane.
Now you did point out an issue with factory farming, which is good, but your solution was to go hunting. I don't see how that has anything to do with factory farming. Switching to a plant based diet uses 1/8 the land so no brutal factory farms, less deforestation and methane production, less heart disease, and better erections.
If that last one doesn't convince you, you're helpless.
Eat more soy, and get a better boner. Peace.
[–]FormOfTheChair 1 point2 points3 points (3 children) | Copy Link
[+][deleted] [recovered] (2 children) | Copy Link
I'm just trying to help out some brothers. Bust through the myths and GYOW
[–]FormOfTheChair -1 points0 points1 point (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]Gagedemoss2 points [recovered] | Copy Link
[+][deleted] [recovered] (6 children) | Copy Link
Sorry I have one more reply. I find it funny that you know more about good cow nutrition than human nutrition. So I'll take your quote and and humanize it, maybe you'll see the problem !
Meat-fed humans are often fed meat and dairy, which is not a part of a human's natural diet (starch). These humans get sick (heart disease) and need drugs to compensate for the illnesses associated with suboptimal diet. (Statins and insulin)
Do you see..?
[–]FormOfTheChair 1 point2 points3 points (5 children) | Copy Link
[+][deleted] [recovered] (4 children) | Copy Link
Yes. Populations that eat less meat have better health.
No, it's not as if that. Of course they have bearing. They match other herbavores. Along with the literally dozens of other arguments I made you failed to address. Science is a bitch, huh?
He says with absolutely no source. After I gave dozens of sources and biological traits, your argument is "we evolved as omnivores." Good one.
I am. It's a great agenda! Health of our people and our plane! All without hurting animals. You should find a good agenda as well.
I'm actually convinced you are the troll. You failed to respond to literally every point in my argument. I learned a lot about you.
You are too dense to change, even when proof is in front of your eyes.
People all come to MGTOW for different reasons, but I sense you're just here because your to stubborn to ever be compatible with another human being.
Peace.
[–]FormOfTheChair 0 points1 point2 points (3 children) | Copy Link
[+][deleted] [recovered] (2 children) | Copy Link
This is a blog post. Not scientific research. Try again.
Seems I've won then, by default?
Literally been asking you to counter my points. Literally asking for debate. Lol
You as well. Don't be so dense.
[–]FormOfTheChair -1 points0 points1 point (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]Gagedemoss1 point [recovered] | Copy Link
[–]Stargazer342 points3 points4 points (9 children) | Copy Link
[+][deleted] [recovered] (8 children) | Copy Link
Well, the president of the American College of Cardiology disagrees with you. So does the science.
[–]Stargazer344 points5 points6 points (7 children) | Copy Link
[+][deleted] [recovered] (6 children) | Copy Link
Boatloads of industry funded studies*
feel free to read my longer post in this thread down below. I linked everything a reasonable person would need to change their mind. Good luck.
[–]Stargazer340 points1 point2 points (5 children) | Copy Link
[+][deleted] [recovered] (4 children) | Copy Link
Absolutely. Without a doubt. However, you replied way too fast to have read all the sources I cited. Please go read those yourself. Make Dr Kim Williams proud :)
[–]Stargazer340 points1 point2 points (3 children) | Copy Link
[+][deleted] [recovered] (2 children) | Copy Link
Ah, another instant reply. Seems you still haven't read any material. Makes sense. If you do ever decide to look at the science and you won't come to any other conclusion.
Peace :)
[–]Stargazer343 points [recovered] | Copy Link
[–]Gagedemoss0 points [recovered] | Copy Link
[–]Drachenhohle1 point2 points3 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]cobaltcolander1 point2 points3 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]H34vyM3nt410 points1 point2 points (6 children) | Copy Link
[–]cobaltcolander0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]Gagedemoss1 point [recovered] | Copy Link
[–][deleted] -1 points0 points1 point (3 children) | Copy Link
[+][deleted] [recovered] (2 children) | Copy Link
This is an anecdotal claim based on no source at all.
[–][deleted] -1 points0 points1 point (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]Gagedemoss1 point [recovered] | Copy Link
[–]the_unseen_one-1 points0 points1 point (3 children) | Copy Link
[+][deleted] [recovered] (2 children) | Copy Link
Yes, but 50% of Americans die of heart disease. Calories in calories out only applies to one risk factor- obesity.
[–]the_unseen_one-2 points-1 points0 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]Gagedemoss2 points [recovered] | Copy Link
[–]MenGoingTOWin2 points3 points4 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]suhdude9871 point2 points3 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]EvilPencil1 point2 points3 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]joamel0115 points16 points17 points (5 children) | Copy Link
[–]40moreyears7 points8 points9 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]PorkBomber4 points5 points6 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]AtoZZZ1 point2 points3 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]rogerhuston 1 point2 points3 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]VTDante 1 point2 points3 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]percival9015 points [recovered] | Copy Link
[–]DarthSchadenfreude5 points6 points7 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]SHAMELESSDAB303 points4 points5 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]AtoZZZ2 points3 points4 points (2 children) | Copy Link
[–]beyond_therapy_[S] 0 points1 point2 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]AtoZZZ0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]robowriter2 points3 points4 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]Ipride3621 point2 points3 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]TheMarvelousSchmuck1 point2 points3 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]TheHandsomeMF 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]I-spy900 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]PhrygianScaler0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link