Hmm | MGTOW

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Kids today have access to information on the internet. The curious and/or smart ones will realize something is off and do some searches.

Sure, now. I didn't and you can't account for every kid in every place. It's part of the false programming or wishful thinking, not sure which.

They sometimes even end up here. I’ve seen lots of posts from teenagers saying they found the red pill.

I wish I had. I was purple pilled when I was a teenager. Stupidly believed in unicorns.

Also, I don’t think kids are that dumb. They will quickly notice that real women look and act completely different than 2D girls.

Yea but then they'll just think it's cultural differences or fall for chameleons. I watched anime from an early age and thanks to some personally significant imagery, I have images of the imaginary family I know I'll never have and it's fine to have things give shape and structure to our imaginations but there's programming in it too.

They’ll end up GTOW as many of us do. They just also have the loving embrace of their waifus.

That's true. i just wish I had fully ingested the red pill earlier but we all end up in the same place.

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Men pioneer everything new and women are just water shaped by the frame of whatever they dependent on, father, husband, clergy, government. If you meet a woman with a hobby, you’ve met her fathers or previous boyfriends hobbies. Women are just slow to catch up generationally because they have to go where the resources are typically with older men. And tech is brand new to earth and we’ve also experienced a generation of men in deep dept that isn’t a morgtage. But you can see now young women getting into gaming because the gaming generations are finally actually having noticeable resources and theres a generation of daughters coming of age who have gaming fathers. Same phenomenon with the increased female participation these days comics and table top activities. Wether their interest is genuine or just necessary adaptation to maintain their main survival currency, attention from males with resources, as the landscape changes is debatable; maybe a bit of both.

[–]NarutoDnDSoundNinja0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

[–]redandnarrow2 points3 points4 points 6 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

We live in a wildly unique slice of history of fast paced drastic change so any examples in past seem like they’ll be less observably pronounced without being there yourself to observe the culture. However it does seem like there are plenty recordings of women plundered as spoils of conquest quickly adapting like water to the new frame their now in. Men today are still shocked how quick women move on after a break up. Same phenomenon. It’s survival. But the strength of the new frame matters and her history of frames shes been conformed too, where there is examples of women quickly accepting the new gods of her captors, there are also examples of women holding onto basically her fathers old gods.

Women are the ocean, chaotic nature, and men the dikes and jetties they crash upon making the calm harbor, the orderly safe city.

If men really wanted and corporately withdrew their attention to only those women who dressed as clowns, soon all of society would be women wearing big red noses. Somewhere this wisdom was lost on us and men now make the mistake of thinking they need to find a women that likes what they do; when the good news is all men need is to find some virgin clay and you can easily craft a woman that is everything you are.

The reason women are so bad right now is because men are so pathetic right now. If we are so lucky for men to wake up and grow a spine like the redpilled communites, we will see the pendulum swing.

The reason the adam/eve story survives is because it continually happens over and over at the micro and macro scales of life in history, vicious cycle. Sadly the clergy gloss over its warning in their teaching of it as they are pretty plugged in themselves. Adams a spineless pathetic man who instead of leading eve, follows her. thus eves niavety gets Everyone kicked out of paradise. We’re watching this slowly happen in the micro and macro now.

Mgtow is a natural sane response, but we’re still screwed long term unless men also give women a good spanking and timeout in the corner. (Which really turns them on after their tantrum passes) Because if we merely check out, corporately women will continue to install a tyranny or outright invite barbarians over to plunder them instead of put up with the weak men of their own nation.

[–]NarutoDnDSoundNinja0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

If I could buy you a beer right now, I would. This post is supremely enlightening. I grew up Christian and always held the Bible as being a literal translation of what happened in the past. Growing up and out of my Christian faith and re-evaluating my beliefs lead me to a better place, spiritually, mentally, hell even physically. What this also lead to was a fundamental change in how I viewed the Bible... now holding the belief that it is intended to be a metaphorical guidebook written by our ancestors with the goal of chronicling wisdom.

Do you hold the same view? How can one dissect the ancient books (Bible, Qur'an, etc.)? What are some of the other ancient books that would be worthy of study, and what would be the qualifying markers of making a book ancient? Is it because it is old and has survived? Must it be a religious text? I figure that the Odyssey and Iliad written by Homer are worth taking a look into. I mean, the book has themes of men fighting each other simply because they want one another's woman because she's supposed to be the most beautiful.. also out of respect and whatnot. The point is... what books hold ancient hidden wisdom? Is it books in the Mythology and Folklore genre? Singly major religious texts?

What's a young man to do?

[–]redandnarrow2 points3 points4 points 6 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

I think everyone should always be reading/listening from many sources so that many centers of the universe can pull on you and balance you out from ending up in a bubble. Keep an open mind with some healthy skepticism. The bible encourages this "Do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewal of your mind" and "man cannot live by bread alone".

I think you will find any writings/storys that has survived time will have done so because there is something true in it or at the very least contains something functionally fitness bearing. You'll notice how fast culture is forgetting the recent star wars movies, yet Harry Potter and LOTR stick with us.

I also think if every book was burned & forgotten, even the bible, they would eventually reconstitute themselves, it'd look different in surface detail, but the truthes underlying the stories would be there and likely some Christ figure would emerge again.

Our body, our intelligence, it's the hardware and stories, even fictional ones, are like the software loaded onto them. DNA is an instruction set for our cells and stories an instruction set for proper being that we can put on embody/simulate. The Christ, seeming to be best amalgamation of this 'DNA' to embody for proper being.

You'll notice even people who don't much care for faith/god often still return to churches once they have children, they unconsciously understand something about the need for booting their children with something that will equip them for life. This is the best they know and might just be the best we currently have. Even a shallow surface understanding of it yields people the benefits of proper being in life, but for some, we grow up and can't stay in the shallows and require more resolution.

Just as the hardware, phsyical life, has been constituted slowly through a long evolutionary process of two things clashing (often violently) and negotiating a new existence together, boiling off each others impurities. So too has the software also constituted itself through a similar process. In ancient times every culture clashed upon discovering each other and gobbled up each others gods into new forms, negotiating the form of the new gods, getting rid of the parts that were worth leaving behind. Untill now we seem pretty close to the end of that process and have single 'god'. The bible is many hyperlinked writings constituted over a long time span, how long we don't even know because of pre-writing oral tradition. But you can see some stories in Genesis that have been very boiled down to their truth packed essences like the cain/able story.

You probably aren't growing out of christianity, but actually into it. (though I understand wanting to distance yourself form that tainted label) You're just finally getting off the baby food for which 99.99% of churches seem mired in. The butt-hurt atheist gets tired of how nonsensical it is for adults to be spoon fed baby food, but then throws the whole baby out with the bath water instead of graduating from sunday-skool and the 101 class; studying on to the 800 & 900 level and finding that even other ancient texts contain overlapping truths about proper being and that even fairy tales are quite true. Check out writers like C.S.Lewis and Jordan Peterson if you want some solid food.

Take a look into other religions, I think you'll quickly find that JW, Mormonism, Islam, etc can be quickly thrown out for their culty behaviors, hidden sexual degeneracy, historical incompatibilities, and shitty founders. (The best lies are slight deviations from the truth) and if you ever feel like participating in one, look for the de-centralized flavors. (god seems all about making people independent) But check out some eastern 'faiths' because some seem quite compatible with the bible and may one day integrate each other in that process of clashing I was describing earlier. All of reality is constantly communicating it's truth, different cultures have crashed right into reality and learned the hard way about proper being and pass on it's lessons, eventually it all gets written down and compiled. That's what a bible is.

Is there a god? Hard to say, I can really go either way at times, what god is, might be quite different from the infantile and common conception we have, but I can at least appreciate the long refined software compilation that has been handed down and worry when society is trying to throw them out. Neische grieved the 'death of god' and predicted the horrors that came from it.

That all said, yea, keep feeding your brain as you go through life, go read any book that has survived that humans hold onto. Greek myths. Socrates/Plato/Marcus Aurelius. If a writing is worth it's salt, then there are probably other writings that point out it's underlying truths and why and where they come from in nature/reality/lived experience. You'll even begin to read fairy tales and watch movies in a new light and discern where hollywood is trying to install their own fowl bits of code in people.

[–]NarutoDnDSoundNinja0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

Once again, I thank you for the in-depth response. I really do appreciate the perspective.

And I'd have to agree with you now that I've thought about it. I guess I am trending towards my Christian faith again. There was a time after I shed my Christianity that I turned Antitheist, then Agnostic Atheist, then Agnostic Deist, and now... god knows where I stand (no pun intended). I suppose there might be a god or force that we would call god... but I believe the interpretation that we have as Mankind pales in comparison to whatever it may be, and I don't think we'll ever even come close. Maybe that makes me a pessimist, but I digress.

I've begun my journey into analyzing myths and legend, stories of old... but as a complete and utter novice, I do have a question:

How does one interpret what one reads? Or rather, how do you know if the interpretation that you yourself come up with is the right way of absorbing the information given?

Let's take an example: "man cannot live by bread alone". Is this literal? Sure. But what does the author mean by "bread"? Does bread mean knowledge... is action needed in tandem? Does it mean comfort? Does it mean respect?

I don't know... but I sure want to.

[–]redandnarrow1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

To answer your question: Via practicing critical thinking you'll build that muscle to interpret, understand better, see more clearly, and more quickly; and by reading from many different people it will both sharpen you and help balance you, rubbing off you're rough edges and enabling you to see where other views have theirs.

If you want to understand your example, you can spend time studying the context in which it was written and the context of the writer and writers culture and time in history. But everything is often quite connected and so the larger and broader you expand yourself in other places in life, the more each individual piece, like this non-bread example, will probably look even clearer and richer to you. A good English class (rare) or a good book group or bible study (also rare) will help exercise these muscles.

There is a big different between merely knowing something and it truly being written inside you. People experience epiphanies, they knew something for decades and one day it really dawns on them crystal clearly. Very interesting stuff when set along side the bits we know about our left and right brain halves communicating with each other.

Anyways...

With the bread example, though I haven't looked at it in awhile, it seems to me that non-bread is something like the pursuit of truth, soul food, whatever you can consume that will renew your mind and strengthen your soul. Which all encourages you to face existence and being. It really does mean 'cannot live' because if you do not consume this non-bread, it leads people to the malnutrition of their soul and death of both kinds.

What is this? Well I think its what words like 'spiritual' are trying to capture at much difficulty. A spiritually sick person, a malnourished soul, is something like lacking the meaning required in order to buffer one-selves against the suffering inherent in a limited existence. If you don’t learn ‘the way’ as the taoist and early christians called it, the proper mode of being; this suffering inherent in existing will be a crushing double helping. You'll be upset for something bad happening and then that frustration compounded by existence even allowing bad to happen. We have little control for the first, but much control over the second, which comes easier and easier with the renewal of your mind and strengthening of your soul.

Humans apparently need to continually ingest and digest truth in order that they don’t slide towards regressive and self destructive despair. The un-conscious manifestations of this and those in self-denial turn eventually to self-destructive life-patterns, usually alchohol-abuse and various kinds of pleasure-abuse, sometimes just spiraling out of control to death, like OD'ing on hard drugs. Those on the other end whom are conscious end up quite depressed, despairing, and finally taking their own lives, or worse still, taking as many others as they can with them.

One aspect is if you don’t understand why this limitation is actually desirable or necessary or good. The inherent suffering will make you question existence itself, the goodness of god, the goodness of being itself, etc. That will lead to bitterness, despair, and complete revulsion and loathing for existence itself. Desiring to not just suicide, but to exact revenge against the universe and it's author. Read about the columbine shooters writings/reasonings for a clear example of this. Or anytime in history society (possessed corporately by this malnourishment) builds a tyrannical 'anti-christ' in the state and manifests hell in camps that dehumanize, humiliate, torture, and kill millions of their own citizens. 'Utopia' always just one more murder away.

This is why neglecting to consume the non-bread, you risk death. Actually you risk the real death, which physical aging, bodily decay, and burial are all just images trying to warn us of this real death.

Notice how Jesus only ever describes hell as a place of "weeping and gnashing of teeth", that's the bitterness and despair of the malnourished. There are plenty of people walking among us now who've starved themselves to that self crafted hell long before a bodily death. If christendom is true, then bodily death or resurrecting a body isn't the problem, it's trying to convince a being, that being is good and worth it, and 'the way' seems to be the proper mode of being to transcend limitation and suffering.

[–]NarutoDnDSoundNinja0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

So, from my understanding, "the way" is defined as whatever activities or rewards that renew your want to live life? For some, like me, I have to be consistently learning for I am constantly curious. I MUST question or else I literally become depressed doing and living the same shit in and out. I assume that can look different in regards to other people. Perhaps another person needs to be in a certain line of work... or one might need to occupy their mind with a daily hobby.

A person lacking meaning (that which is garnered through their own selected activities that GIVE individual meaning) will then lack the necessary tools for facing existence... does that seem correct?

So if one is to face existence manifesting itself as this seemingly endless suffering that pervades our finite life, one must find an activity that gives them that meaning and do that activity to feed and nourish themselves so that they may battle against this inherent suffering that is life?

To heal another, one must convince the other that existing (or rather, living) is good and to do so, you would have to help them find their activity that gives them meaning to their lives. This is my understanding.

Also, I am a bit confused when you say "limitation". By limitation do you mean a finite existence? Or is it the challenge of overcoming suffering? Maybe a bit of both?

All in all, I've had an extremely pleasant conversation with you. I feel like a few clouds have been lifted thanks to this dialogue. May whatever godly figure exists smile with you.

[–]redandnarrow1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Its something like that, but more about a proper aim or direction, or a way of aiming or choosing aims, that acted upon, will sustain and strengthen you. I would say that its not about finding an activity, but about orienting yourself, and that manifests much activity, in fact I suspect it will be enough activity to sustain all eternity, we will never grow bored of it. If you place the weight of your being upon any one thing you will crush it and likely harm yourself and others in the process. This is what the warning of idolatry seems to communicate. Read "The Great Divorce" by C.S.Lewis, it's a fiction, but a true one. It will show you some examples, where people take something good, like love for a child, and mistakenly make that something good, ultimate, and then it becoming destructive to everyone, the person, their family, and the child. (seen in many other fictional stories like LotR's Gollum, 'my precious! I must have it')

Rather we need to continually aim up and place the weight of our being on 'God'. ('having no idols') When you drive your car, you do not look at other cars or the sidewalk or your dashboard or even the lines right in front of you if you want to drive strait between the lines. These should be in the periphery of your vision and you need to keep your eyes on the horizon. I think it's by the process of consuming the non-bread you will be able to sift wheat from chaff and orient yourself better in life, because there is an up and down for aims. You see this communicated in the stories like peter walking on water, transcending limitations of physics and falling into the storm the moment he takes his eyes off Jesus. There is real human progression, transcendence, and then what the 'dead' try to sell as 'progressive', which is actually quite regressive.

As for limitation, it is just that. You require oxygen, water, nutritious food, 9.8ms gravity or you atrophy and fall apart, a miraculously rare goldilocks planet, 8-9 hours of unconscious vulnerable sleep, a specific temperature, shelter from weather, clothing, a healthy social life, the non-bread we spoke of, and the list goes on and on. Inevitably this makes it really easy to experience suffering.

As far as existence being finite, I'm not convinced, one reason at least to hold such an idea suspect is that those who desire meaninglessness rely heavily on finitude to justify their wicked actions. I think it's much more likely that humanity eventually solves for immortality and even bodily resurrection. God seems to like to manifest everything through a long random yet weighted-dice law-of-large-numbers evolutionary process, whether it's naturally selected life, or the scriptural storied instruction set I described earlier. So why not these other prophesied and promised miracles by the same process? God doesn't seem to be interested in instantaneous magic, but rather a sublime cosmic dance and orchestra and including humans whether they partner with him in proper being intentionally or not.

It seems the exponential progress of humanity will one day be so insane that material satisfaction will be trivial and abundant and then too space travel will be common place and we will go to the heavens. The only question left for people then is will they choose to live among 'god' and 'his people' now that they have seemingly no needs and are pretty much completely free to do as they wish in the universe.

I suspect we will still see those whom will live out willingly and eternally the 'real death', those that are bitterly choosing to self isolate into their own personally crafted hells unwilling to self examine, unwilling to change, unwilling to orient themselves for proper being. I suspect that 'gods people' will even resurrect them time and again, maybe once every million years, trying to convince them of 'the way' and to join them in the 'heaven' we build together, but these unconvinced bitter denizens will either suicide themselves again and again hating being itself, or they will just fly off to their lonely corner of the universe never quite feeling far enough from their 'annoying' neighbors a few galaxies over whom they just can't stand.

Unlike our many infantile conceptions, God isn't going to force your participation in 'heaven' or throw and torture you into 'hell'. The only thing he seems to be forcing us into, is this relatively short period of time where he uses extreme limitation to both birth and coral humanity in an attempt communicate and convince each person of the 'proper being' necessary for eternal creatures to exist in a heavenly state instead of a hellish one. Once you start to see it, you will see it communicated everywhere in reality without the need of books/scriptures (though you'll appreciate them more). From parenting, to bodily decay and death, micro-biology, etc...

It's not love or hatred you should worry about, but apathy, eventually 'God', having wrestled continually for much time trying to convince each one of us of 'the way', will eventually have no choice but just let those whom won't be convinced, to just go their own way into their self crafted hells.

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Title	Hmm
Author	7Naigen
Upvotes	808
Comments	75
Date	April 29, 2020 6:42 PM UTC (6 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MGTOW
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MGTOW/comments/gaeyl3/hmm/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MGTOW/hmm.657958 https://theredarchive.com/post/657958

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