I Need Some Guidance... Please.

TFCNU · 2015-03-03T16:02:14+00:00

You're 18. Don't think about having kids for at least ten years. Focus on your education, your career, your hobbies. When you figure all of that out, maybe you can start looking at options, but honestly, your options suck. I don't know where you're from, but in most English speaking countries there is nothing a man can do to prevent a woman from taking his children if the relationship breaks down.

Single parent households are bad for kids and there simply is no way to know at the outset whether you'll end up in that situation. Men have an evolutionary desire to reproduce but never mistake your urges for your purpose. Focus on what you can give to the world, what you can create.

ancap-biochemist · 2015-03-03T17:56:05+00:00

I believe the only way I can make meaning in my life, is by having a child, my own child, that I can raise to venture the world on their own.

May I ask why you believe this is the only way that you can make meaning in your life?

May I ask what you mean by "meaning"?

"Purpose" perhaps? An "end goal", perhaps?

What will you do if, say, you get testicular cancer (I knew one guy in college, younger than me, in fact, who lost a testicle)? You know, say, for instance, for whatever reason, you cannot have children; in this hypothetical world - does your life cease to have "meaning"?

Whatever lifeboat scenario you want to use, like; your testicles are walking across the street and they are hit by a bus; a crazy axe murderer holds your testicles in her basement... whatever - assume that, for some reason that you cannot have children.

Then what?

Do you lay down and die because the only meaning in life is to photocopy your genes into infinity?

Or... does life have something more to it?

I assume you like building things, creating and tinkering (otherwise I would question why you're an engineering student)... does that not give you pleasure? Is that not meaning enough - to derive a sense of purpose by building fantastic machines? To enjoy the creative passion of your chosen work?

Let's say you can't be an engineer... Let's say your engineering degree is crossing the street...

Does your life, again, lose purpose?

You confuse me, sir. You're young, and very smart for your age, so it's highly forgivable that you believe children are equal to the meaning of life. Hell, old people can be so foolish, too - age has nothing to do with this and I'm just trying to subtly compliment your intelligence.

But your request for guidance is a request wrongly asked - because it assumes "meaning" is synonymous with "having children".

There's nothing wrong with your biological imperative, but if you were looking for guidance about taking a shit or drinking only water and all other drinks don't give your biology enough "meaning"... then you'd see how absurd this line of thinking is.

You have a biological urge, and just like any biological urge, it is part of your humanity. But do not make the is/ought leap of logic into faith - don't put your faith into siring children as a means of finding purpose.

No.

That would be deriving an "ought" from an "is". Your sex drive/desire to procreate is. But that does not mean that you ought.

"The sun shines" is different from saying "the sun ought to shine".

If you want to derive meaning from biology... (I'm a biochemist so, I guess, I'd suggest studying bioethics if that's your jam... otherwise I would simply tell you that genes are amoral molecules, which have no moral agency, and that questions of meaning and "should" or "ought" or "good" do not apply)

I guess if you want to derive the meaning of your life from biology, then why not pick... nutrition? The cardiovascular system? The urge to defecate?

Why, of all biological urges to derive meaning, is it the urge to have peristaltic contractions injecting semen into a woman?

Why not the peristaltic contractions of taking a shit? Is that not equally absurd?

Your genes want to make copies of themselves. They're very selfish. You can listen to them and ignore your higher cognitive functions, and the realization of how your sexual desires can be leveraged against you, in order for you to feed parasitical people (mostly women, but men, too, can take advantage of other men, say, through advertising with sexy models, or some such).

And, hey, if you decide to breed, then thanks, I appreciate that, since that will improve the economy and eventually your kids will sell their labor, and enrich themselves and pursue their passions... who knows, maybe they will become a young engineer who I can talk to, and who builds nifty things which make life more comfortable, enjoyable or otherwise enriched... And, you know, I'll benefit from that youth and passion... Oh wait, you're someone young and passionate, looking for meaning, and wanting to build things into the future... well hello, thanks for that, but - that doesn't matter. There is no meaning in you, or your having kids, on account of some internet stranger you met on the MGTOW subreddit.

No.

Meaning... and write this down...

is derived from... [message terminated] .

.

Nah! Just kidding. Meaning is derived from understanding - it is intellectual in nature. These letters, on your screen, which you are reading, which I have typed - have no meaning... except... within your thinking mind (and mine, too, if you want to be generous and assume that I have a thinking mind, as well). The meaning, here, is derived from understanding the symbology of letters we call language. All meaning is within a thinking mind.

It's in your head.

music chimes in it was in you all along!

...But seriously, if you want real meaning - understand reality. Observe.

And what do you observe?

Do you think that people with kids are happy? Few of them... few parents do it right... most parents treat children as chattel to be owned and controlled. Few parents have the resources to raise a child and maintain their irrational standards for living.

You want a child? You want meaning?

Engineer an artificial womb, and create a child by understanding reality then molding it to your purposes.

I am biased in this regard, since I'd like to take a shot at building such a reproductive technology. It is [one of] my life's purpose[s]. I find "meaning" in it (in understanding the mechanics of life).

But you don't have to go my way - this is MGTOW, after all - go your own way. Be that child that you wish to see venture forth into the world. If that is what you want, then you can have it immediately, and without a brood-mother eating your soul, and a court system squeezing you dry with the threat of violent force and theft.

YOU are the person, whom will be with, for the rest of your life. You will carry memories of you, now, into the future. You need not a woman and child to fulfill this role. You can be your own companion. Or find others, that's your call (and I do suggest making friends).

So... if you want a legacy, then it is not exclusively the domain of those who breed to have a legacy, if that is your goal. I mean, yes, go breed, if you want, I'm not going to stop you. Hell, I need someone to engineer an ass-wiping machine for when I get old and need my ass-wiped, and maybe you or your kids will gift the world with your intellectual pursuits, such that I get to benefit, as I have benefited from all those men who have came before me. I stand on the shoulders of giants. I see a little farther than they did. I won't stop you from doing something that benefits me, but don't, for one second, think that your sole purpose in life is to create more functional human beings, least of all for the sake of some schmuck like me or the whole damn rest of society.

Fuck them, fuck their expectations [of you], fuck their standards of morality and the cult [irrational] worship of the family (again, as if genes possessed any moral weight... absurd. DNA is a fucking molecule - it is a tool in my toolbox, it is not my master - it is my servant. As Dr. Micheal Gelb said of tandem mass spectroscopy and genetic screening of congenital diseases, "Molecules are dumb. We're smart. We can trick them."), fuck their con-game, fuck ignorance.

Think for yourself. Who told you kids were tantamount to a meaningful existence?

Again, meaning only exists in understanding. If you want meaning, then I suggest understanding. Engineering will teach you many natural sciences, which I highly recommend.

Avoid academic philosophy, though. Avoid it like the plague. They have an agenda - they are like selfish genes trying to reproduce memetically. They will indoctrinate you. And it is critical that you retain your critical thinking, skepticism, capacity for reason, and curiosity. Self-study, if you want to ask questions like "what is the meaning of life?" Audit the philosophy classes, if you want, but never bow to the grade-giver's authority to threaten you with academic sanction - it will stifle your freedom of thought, which is antithetical to the love of wisdom (philosophy as it is otherwise known).

Keep looking, sir. I appreciate that you looked for guidance in MGTOW philosophy, and hopefully you found this helpful, applicable, and in harmony with with the truth of reality, so as to provide meaningful guidance (as opposed to the nonsense that you may find elsewhere). Keep looking at the evidence, my friend.

brendeho · 2015-03-03T22:24:26+00:00

dude, if you want children, you need to have children in a foreign land without divorce rape laws. simple as that.

Mgtowportugal · 2015-03-04T02:54:47+00:00

Don't rush to marriage. Don't fall for people trying to push into your life their shitty life. Do what makes you happy whataver that may be. Do whatever brings you more wisdom, more money and subsequently more Freedom.

My perspective is different of course but I see the look of my friends and family jealous of my freedom, even more jealous for the car I drive (convertible). When you do things in a certain way (the right way the Mgtow way) You will have everything you have ever wished for and everything Will fall into place. Knowledge is indeed power. Learn the most you can like a sponge

10199 · 2015-03-03T08:29:38+00:00

just dont think about marriage until you are 30 years old

oldredder · 2015-03-03T10:09:08+00:00

Surrogacy

BendingBack · 2015-03-03T10:28:54+00:00

Don't marry. But if you want children, just do long term relationship, you will have some fun/help, and if/when it goes bust after 10,15,20 years who cares, children will be old enough for you to be able to take care of them by yourself. Or with help of hired people, just make sure you have the money.

BubbaORLY · 2015-03-03T10:31:22+00:00

Ask almost anybody here and I suspect they will admit that the difference between where they are today compared to where they thought they would be today, 18 years ago, is significant, if not completely comical. Remain flexible, both in your goals and in your approach.

With respect to having a child, consider what about it would give your life meaning. What do you feel you can't achieve without one? Why? Is it because society tells you that for your life to have meaning your DNA and surname must be passed on?

Look up some of the notable men (or women for that matter) who never had children and you might be surprised: George Washington, Leonardo da Vinci, Beethoven, Isaac Newton, Plato, and Jesus just to name a few. Julius Caesar adopted his great-nephew but didn't have a child of his own. There are, of course, countless less notable but still influential men who had no children. We create meaning through the mark we leave on the world by our words and actions, not because we pass on our DNA.

Now, a child can be part of the way we leave a mark on the world insofar as he or she is influenced by our words and actions and is able to propagate them forward through time, but you don't even need to have sex to be a father. Yes, the hurdles can be high when the rules are stacked against us, but surrogacy and adoption are both viable routes if one is both very careful and truly committed. As part of the whole remaining flexible thing, they are options I would certainly recommend keeping on the table.

thrownaway_MGTOW · 2015-03-03T11:07:57+00:00

A thread posing very similar issues/questions was here just a few days back: http://www.reddit.com/r/MGTOW/comments/2x7wl4/mgtow_and_the_meaning_of_life/

I would suggest that you might find the comments under that thread to be pertinent and of value in addition to what people post here. (And my response here would be very much the same as the response I made there.)

EnriKinsey · 2015-03-04T06:56:06+00:00

Nobody has any clue on what they are going to do with their life when they're 18. Any 18-year-old who "has life figured out" is either an arrogant idiot or the next Jesus or Buddha. My money's on arrogant idiot.

Heck, most people have no clue on what they are going to do with their life. You should know by now that your 18th birthday did not magically make you competent and wise. None of your subsequent birthdays will do that either.

So, relax. You're fine. The rest of us is as clueless as you. :)

A lot can happen in 10 years. Maybe things will get better. Maybe you start reading r/childfree and decide that you don't want a child after all. Enjoy your youth. There will be plenty of time to ponder life goals when you're an "elderly" 30-year-old.

Jake-da-Pitch · 2015-03-04T18:43:12+00:00

I'm stuck in that same "conundrum" and I can only tell you not to gie up or focus on the depressing reality too much, but go with the flow and live your life, succeed. We'll find our ways.

insurrecto · 2015-03-04T03:23:50+00:00

I agree with TFCNU. You're only 18. You shouldn't be thinking about getting married right now. Focus on school and getting a good job.

After you have that, you can decide for yourself whether marriage is worth the legal risks (alimony, child support, child custody, etc).

codemoney · 2015-03-03T15:51:58+00:00

I believe the only way I can make meaning in my life, is by having a child, my own child, that I can raise to venture the world on their own.

I have a slightly different perspective. I was, and see, children being raised by people who have no business having children. They are abused and/or neglected. I want for them what I didn't have growing up; someone who says there is nothing bad or evil about you. Mistakes are OK. There is no god to hate you for your sins.

I don't care about DNA (someday people will pick those traits for their children, 'designer genes' as it were, and that will be a dystopian nightmare) or if someone caries on my name (there are lots of them in the phone book).

This is a different path with its own difficulties. Namely, I am a smaller influence on them than a parent. I only hope that they get a perspective on things that helps them cope.

lastlaugh50 · 2015-03-04T06:58:45+00:00

Go volunteer at a daycare or nursing home and find out if you really want to be changing dirty diapers at 3AM when you have to work at 8AM.

Children were useful hundreds of years ago when more help was needed on the farm. Now children are a burden. Work hard and accomplish your dreams.

MGTOWmadness · 2015-03-04T07:17:52+00:00

There is a lot of wisdom in these posts.

I will add that when I was 18 I also believed that children were in my future. Now, the only way that is going to happen is by accident (stupid fucking slow-ass Vasalgel idiots...dammit). I couldn't see another purpose in life. Now, I see having and raising children as a selfish pursuit reserved for the mindless.

Does it have to be your genetics? I am familiar with a man that adopted boys and raised them (pre-teens, teenagers). At one time I think he had 4-5 of them. No female. This could be an enormous help to society, and you'd get paid to do it.

Do you need to raise it? If not, sperm banks.

The most important thing that I would highlight from the other posts is this: you have a lot of time. Don't worry about putting it all together today (I know how impossible that is). Time will answer many of these questions. In the mean time, get to living! Finish your degree. Travel. Earn some money. Do whatever.

And a heads up, you'll be coming up on the first wave of friends' marriages/kids in a few years. Lots of pressure there. By the time you're 25 you'll realize that those people were all stupid. Just in time for the second wave. Which you'll realize those people were stupid as hell by the time you're 29. As a side note: I know many people who had to have a baby right away. Their development as adults froze the day they had a baby. All future personal development was replaced by stress and obligation. Their futures are completely jacked.

rubifenrx · 2015-03-04T15:40:09+00:00

Dude, your too young! First of all, you gotta ask yourself "Why the FUCK am I worried about marriage at my age??" There lies the problem. Dude, you have at least 10+ years of being single! Trust me....Ive been battered and bruised by women: stay away from trouble (women) and focus on becoming a better man.

2015-03-05T01:40:44+00:00

Hey man. Do you. I know that sounds dumb, but the more you focus on yourself, the happier you'll be. Don't have any hobbies? Find something that interests you and roll with it. Maybe get into restoring vehicles, soldering and tinkering with electronics, make music, anything. You're gonna be an engineer, start making shit man!

Title	I Need Some Guidance... Please.
Author	Gajipco
Upvotes	8
Comments	21
Date	March 3, 2015 7:43 AM UTC (11 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MGTOW
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MGTOW/comments/2xrluw/i_need_some_guidance_please/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MGTOW/i-need-some-guidance-please.629356 https://theredarchive.com/post/629356

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