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VagabondLonewolf
[–]StiuNu53 points54 points55 points 6 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link
free education is a shitty idea.
i'm from a country that offers it.
it's not really free it's payed by everyone via taxation . Our best graduate students are stolen by other country, because they can leave without paying for the degree and are asking for lower wages than local (country they emigrate to) professionals.
They can afford to buy a house and cars in the first year...because they have no students loans to repay.
all you are left are "pros" that no other "better paying" country wants.
[–]ItsIntoTheTrashIGo23 points24 points25 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
it's not really free it's payed by everyone via taxation
Bribing you with your own money.
[–]EgoLemonade3 points4 points5 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Bribing *women with *men's money
[–]Devourercoc22 points23 points24 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
If ur lucky enough to be born in a country with free education and probably a strong passport, what you can do is exploit that luxury and then go on to work in a high paying tax haven country such as UAE, that's what I would do anyway.
[–]Disposable__Male2 points3 points4 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
In Oregon we were going to set up an income share back in 2016, but that went up in smoke.
[–]One_Last_Dreemur1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Beat me to it by a mile.
Affordable college could be done. "Free" will be a disaster.
[+]jsutforthis2-6 points-5 points-4 points 6 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
Where exactly are you from? I am from a welfare country and I do not think of it as a "bad idea" it is a reality which brings prosperity and also makes our society so much better.
[–]StiuNu13 points14 points15 points 6 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
Somewhere in the est Europe.
Our best minds are stolen by the west. Doctors, engineers, architects, IT, welders, everyone that's good in the field cand go and earn twice or more in the west.
The problem is that getting good costs money. They never repay the time and resources spent on teaching them the trade.
This means we have to train a new wave of people while dealing with a shortage of qualified people. This alone cand ruin a country. Because having to use stupid people to run things eventually leads to bad decisions.
[+][deleted] 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
[deleted]
[–]StiuNu0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
That rarely happens. The smart ones are few and many of "boses" are dumb. The smart ones can't burn out because they have to listen to the dumb ones.
[–]richbeezy22 points23 points24 points 6 years ago (25 children) | Copy Link
Sorry, but I already paid my way through school in the early 2000’s. I’m not paying for other people to get their degree, unless the government pays me back what I spent on school.
Also, not everyone is cut out for college. How many of these attempts at a degree that the tax payer pays for will be complete wastes? Students saying “fuck it, I’m not going to class today - it’s free anyways”.
I skipped class when I was paying for school myself, imagine how much more I would have skipped if it was free? If college was “free” when I went, I might not have had the discipline to finish.
These liberal politicians are raking in the votes of the entitled youngsters by telling them everything will be free.
Welp, I’m not fucking paying for it - I already paid for mine. Stop being a whiney bitch and do the same and stop making others who have already paid their own way and likely recently paid off their loans to all of a sudden start paying again? What the fuck is this country coming to?
If tax payers have to start paying for entitled little shits to go to school, there will be a HUGE backlash against Millenials and Gen Z.
[–]where_muh_good_mens2 points3 points4 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
What the fuck is this country coming to?
You are talking about a 'society', not a 'country'. You don't like the way your society is ran because you have to pay for everyone else. Anytime there is wealth redistribution, you will have losers and winners. You work hard? You are a loser. You don't work? You are a loser. You are a politician? You are the winner. That is what happens with communist societies. All of them.
You have the option of being a part of that society or not. But don't think for one second that you have any way to change the tide of welfare now that it is socially acceptable.
[+]soupsoups-6 points-5 points-4 points 6 years ago (23 children) | Copy Link
Sanders' College For All plan is paid for by imposing a Robin Hood tax on speculative trades on Wall Street. So unless you're an investment firm or a day trader, probably not going to affect you very much...
[–]Footnote2209 points10 points11 points 6 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link
Bullshit
You don't shift over a $trillion thru the economy without the effects being felt
[–]richbeezy5 points6 points7 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Dude must been in his early 20’s lol.
[–]soupsoups0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link
What are some of the effects that you predict?
[–]Footnote2200 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link
There's a moral hazard when people start expecting bailouts for their bad decisions that leads to riskier behavior in the future
[–]soupsoups0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link
The goal is to make college free for all. I'm not sure how free higher education for our people is a moral hazard.
[–]Footnote2200 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
Am I obligated to pay for you after I already paid my own way?
[–]soupsoups0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
It's paid for through a Robin Hood tax on speculative trading on Wall Street... You're a day trader?
[–]Footnote2200 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Why are day traders responsible for paying for shitty degrees?
[–]soupsoups0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Why not?
[–]richbeezy0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (13 children) | Copy Link
Yeah, that is what he is dangling out there until that tax isn’t enough to cover all the expenses. Once it is not enough, it will be coming out of YOUR paycheck for the rest of your life. You do realize that the income tax was bandied about by shit heads like Sanders as a tax “only for the rich”. How did that end up working out???
Socialism is a cancer, it only works in a few countries because they are special situations where their healthcare costs are lower due to the US footing the bill with us paying more for innovation.
[–]soupsoups-1 points0 points1 point 6 years ago (12 children) | Copy Link
You're hysterical.
[–]richbeezy0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (11 children) | Copy Link
Go move to Venezuela - Sanders’ ideology fits in perfect there and they are doing so well!
[–]soupsoups-1 points0 points1 point 6 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link
LOL. Do you know what slippery slope fallacy is?
[–]richbeezy0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link
Do you know what “seeing with your two eyes” means?
[–]soupsoups-1 points0 points1 point 6 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link
Yes, do you know what slippery slope fallacy is?
[–]richbeezy0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link
Are you familiar with how the Federal Income tax was created? Look it up. It is exactly what will happen with this. Your fallacy can’t be applied here when the past has shown us that in fact - eventually we too will be taxed.
Democrats proposed the Federal Income tax as only one for the very rich. So please explain to me why nearly a third of what I earn goes to the Federal goverment now? They said it will only affect the rich, just like what you’re saying. You’re an idiot not to see this, and how you’re fallacy you bring up doesn’t apply here.
No, I'm saying that it is a Robin Hood tax on speculative trading on Wall Street. Sanders says that this tax will cover the costs of implementing College For All. So I don't really see the similarity in the comparison you're making between a general income tax versus this specific tax on Wall Street (literally the rich people that crashed the economy and sparked the occupy movement).
[–]richbeezy1 point 6 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Your argument hinges on “Sanders says that this tax will cover the costs....”.
That is a huge assumption. I agree with you though on the rich should pay more, but I think it makes more sense to increase the top rate (a healthy amount) and remove any tax loop holes. We have a trillion dollar yearly budget deficit (yeah we could definitely make spending cuts to get this down). If we raise the rate and have a budget surplus because of doing so - then perhaps use that extra surplus in the form of college grants.
Obviously my main issue is that Sanders tax plan on stock trades will end up not being nearly enough to pay for a promised program, so they will eventually dip into yours and my pockets. Wall Street will get creative and perhaps move trading offshore and avoid the taxes - leaving you and I to pay for it. Happens way too often as it is. The real issue is these colleges are easily able to raise tuition fees because it is easy for students to get a student loan to pay for it (subsidized already by the government). It seems counterintuitive, but if loans were harder to get or in lower amounts - colleges would be forces to lower tuition (unless they want empty classrooms).
[–]soupsoups1 point 6 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Do you even know what the program promises? Have you sincerely looked at his plan, or are you just... Making assumptions?
Plan vs Reality are 2 different things. Politicians are always way off from what their “plan” says will happen, and what actually happens. He got you with his wholesome appeal, but I advise that you be much more skeptical of what he says will happen in reality. Republicans and Democrat politicians make all sorts of plans and promises that almost never are actually accurate when the true figures roll in. I am making some assumptions perhaps, but I am aware of his plans and his platform as a whole not the nitty gritty. I have enough experience with how politics work and the usual outcomes of social programs to not feel the need to study every line of a politician’s plan, hell I wouldn’t do that with a politician that I generally agree with. I’m pretty split politically, I don’t like certain things from both parties and I choose to cherry pick the items I agree with, but Sanders is too far down the spectrum for me.
I will say this though, I’d probably be 50:50 on this issue IF I also get a refund on all the money I spent on college. I also would support it if there is some ultimate guarantee in the law that states that as soon as the amount of money needed exceeds what billionaires and stock speculators can supply in taxes - the program should either end or make it harder to qualify (make GPA requirement higher etc).
My biggest beef is that I would be furious to pay for other peoples’ college when I paid for mine. Probably spent well over $100k. Your argument is that I won’t have to pay - oh I will - I already make about 20 stock trades per year. Then when the program is bankrupt bc there’s not enough money, and Democrats start introducing bills to raise taxes “just a little” on the middle class like they love to do, we are fucked. They always start with “a small tax increase for the middle class”, just to lube us up before the next time around when it’s “another needed tax increase to save the college tuition program”.
[–]soupsoups0 points 6 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
TLDR: Fuck you, got mine.
You’re such an idiot.
More like - “Earned Mine by PAYING - now you earn YOURS without MAKING me PAY AGAIN” - you entitled little prick.
Here's the way I see it. You had to live frugally and make smart decisions to eventually pay off your student loans / college cost and it paid off for you, and now your standard of living is higher with your college degree that you paid for. Would you say though, that the quality of life while you were living frugally is something you would wish upon others? You've been in the system my dude, and you know how fucking broken it is. Wouldn't it have been nice if you could have spent your money on anything other than college expenses? We don't have time machines so we can't go back in time. You can however, get more knowledge for free moving forward. Our parents made many sacrifices to raise us but the good parents aren't demanding that we pay them back for their work. They just want to see us succeed. I want to see my fellow man succeed, and I know that a free college education is a huge investment in the future of our country.
[–]HeyYouzGuyzz 19 points20 points21 points 6 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link
Let's be honest. It's on the colleges and universities for being such pieces of crap that they even offered the degrees in the first place. Still funny tho
[–]rabbit8lol25 points26 points27 points 6 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link
Yes and No, this happened because the government guaranteed the loans. That is free money on the table if you expand and offer whatever will get the kids to take out debt the government will guarantee. It was done purposely, it was a money grab. Now they are trying to pay off debt they accrued by making those who did not take out loans pay it through taxes. The government guaranteed bad loans on our dime and want us to pay the bill again.
http://www.collegescholarships.org/loans/guaranteed.htm
When you are giving out loans at no risk if it goes default and is backed by the government you give shit away.
[–]HeyYouzGuyzz 6 points7 points8 points 6 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link
Thanks for the info. I didn't know that it worked out that way.
[–]RunawayGrain11 points12 points13 points 6 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
Looking back, in the 80's my first tuition bill for a large state school and a full load of classes was about $1200. Books included for an in state student. I caught a little break by living with my cousin and walking a lot. It really seemed like a lot at the time. LOL.
The thing was that up until the eighties or so, people would just take out the loans, then declare bankruptcy to wipe out the debt. Then the government made the changes to make the debt non dischargeable, but also forced the loan companies to give it to just about anyone who asked. That's the easy money that got colleges into the situation they are in today.
[–]hrm08944 points5 points6 points 6 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
$1200 in 1980 is about $3560 today. Community College is like 4k now for in state, with textbooks maybe around $4500 total.
Its the universities that are a heap of bullshit, especially out of state.
[–]DaveJWilliams2 points3 points4 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
In 1980 community college was around 240 dollars a semester (14 dollars a credit hour). For a four year college it was 450 dollars (26 dollars a credit hour). Those are prices for southeast Michigan, other higher priced areas (like NYC) had much higher tuition.
[–]richbeezy1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
And they charge so much because they know there is a sea of money for loans out there that can pay the tuition.
[–]rabbit8lol2 points3 points4 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
No problem, sharing info is a good thing.
[–]BertTheWelder2 points3 points4 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
And the worst part is that the government guaranteed the risk but let private lenders have the interest.
Worst of all worlds - at least if the government had kept the interest then taxpayers could have been fleeced less.
[–]PutridMeatPuppet1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Its not illegal to sell junk degrees.
Stupid to buy them.
But not illegal to sell them.
[–]HeyYouzGuyzz 2 points3 points4 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I'm not saying it's illegal, but it is morally wrong
[–]rocko2000213 points14 points15 points 6 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link
Like Bernie cares. He'll be dead soon
[–]Tyler7892285 points6 points7 points 6 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link
If Killary wants to be candidate again, Bernie will commit "suicide" very soon...
[–]rocko200023 points4 points5 points 6 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
Or he'll just die of old age. Seriously, he looks like he's one flu away from croaking. Which I would say is NOT a quality I want in a President, unless you want a President who has to cut his State of The Union short because it's nap time or because of his narrow urethra and loose stool.
[–]CSM_Pepper2 points3 points4 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
narrow urethra
Hank Hill has entered the chat.
[–]rocko200021 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Damn you. I forgot about that episode. Now I have to look for it.
[–]One_Last_Dreemur0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I was amazed that he didn't suffer Clintonitis via "heart attack" last time. What's hilarious is that if the Dumbocrat party embraced Bernie and ran with his campaign at full throttle, they'd beat the Republicans like a red headed stepchild.
[–]ltcommanderdingus0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Lord willing.
[–]SouthernPawBandito11 points12 points13 points 6 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
Screw free tuition and student loan debt forgiveness. I worked hard to pay for school quarter by quarter and barely got by. Rode the city bus to save my gas money and never ate out.
It's not my resposibilty to fund your 100k college drunk escapade.
If you're dumb enough to take out over 100k in loans for a liberal arts degree, don't ask me to take on that burden and contribute to bailing you out.
[+][deleted] 6 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
[–]SouthernPawBandito2 points3 points4 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Sorry buddy, at 25 I only just missed the boomer generation.
[–]eduardkoopman11 points12 points13 points 6 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
Free University. vs. Very expensive University (like in USA).
I prefer the middle. Affordable university.
[–]ltcommanderdingus2 points3 points4 points 6 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
We have community college and trade school. It's actually not that expensive. Most people on reddit are hyperbolic whiners when it comes to our educational system. I got my associates in electrical engineering for around 25k. I make 70k a year with it. Our system works fine if you aren't a dumbfuck.
[–]eduardkoopman2 points3 points4 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Great to hear. I'm from an European country, so I didn't know the system is like that in USA. That sounds pretty reasonable. All I heard so far in news from the USA education system, was that it is very expensive and students have huge debts. But the extremes always get covered by the news.
I completely understand.. we have all kinds of trade schools and unions that pay for them, and community colleges. Reddit users from the west are typically young and don't know these things or people who wasted their educations on the social sciences.
[–]RedCBR9002 points3 points4 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Spent
the missing word is Spent
[–]EgoLemonade2 points3 points4 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
If I had the power, I'd make it illegal to offer a degree for a job that doesn't exist, or at the very least, take away government funding for such degrees. It's just old farts taking advantage of naive college students. But, on the other hand, if you're dumb enough to think that underwater lesbian dance therapy is an actual job, maybe you deserve to be a wage slave. . . . Hmm.
[–]messmaker9072 points3 points4 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I seen an idea that I like and it’s putting the university on the hook for default loans.
I once dated a woman who got a student loan and shortly later we split up she moved out of state quit school. The loan people called and mailed me for years looking for her. She ended up with some guy who took care of her and she probably is still in default. Fucking cunts sitting on a gold mine and they don’t even know it.
[–]ltcommanderdingus2 points3 points4 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Exactly this. I'm fine with subsidizing the stem fields but there's no way in Satan's burning hell I'd ever sign off on my tax dollars going to some shit heads gender studies bullshit.
[–]VIETnamPTSD2 points3 points4 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
i like the fascist approach: Only subsidize fields which are necessary for the survival of the people such as medical (we need doctors), chemistry (we need cures for diseases) and engineering (Infrastructure).
[–]thotless_rat_bastard1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
The sad part about this picture is that it can be used against a decent person who is running for office.
I'm not saying that cunts with shitty degrees don't exist, but think like a chess player; 10 moves out.
[–]pkarlmann1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Did i get this right? Bernie and Warren want to make those who did not go to University, because probably they couldn't afford it, pay for those who did? Because as far as I know you get paid a lot more if you have a University degree then if you haven't got one and instead went to work right away. Now the ones that got paid less, hadn't had the chance of University shall pay for dump idiots with a women's study, Gender study, Critical Whiteness, Toxic Masculinity or other bullshit social studies?
I just lost my respect for Bernie.
[–]EdwardSandchest1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Make Elementary school fee based, & use the tuition to pay for universities.
[–]richbeezy0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Yes I do, but I have seen it actually happen over and over again. So you’re trying to apply a principle to something it should not be applied to. All you have to do is look at history - Democrats introduced the Federal Income tax a long time ago stating that it will ONLY apply to the very wealthy. Fast forward to today - we are now working from Jan thru May for the GOVERNMENT. Income taxes represent around a 25% of your paycheck, money that the Democrats said we would NEVER have to pay because “we’re only going to tax the rich”.
You sound like a college kid with a bunch of debt, that does not know how shitty our taxes already are, and you think that Sanders or Warren’s plans will not eventually call for everyone to pay more. Fuck that shit. I paid for mine now you fuckers pay for your own.
[–]HonkHonkBro0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Conflicted on this. On one hand, yes, we do need educated people that can start pushing forth for the future, like for tech and such. But then again, idk, no charge for college will piss plenty of taxpayers off because there'll be uncertainty of how much will be payed and if made worth it. Would be nice if
Anyone agree with these alternatives?
[–]RabidIndividualist-2 points-1 points0 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
This isn't even mgtow, fuck off
[–]VagabondLonewolf[S] 1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Its a meme for laughs bro.
[–]where_muh_good_mens1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
The title says "Just for laughs". Don't be a passive aggressive turkey.
[–]One_Last_Dreemur1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link
Among all the other reasons to oppose "free" education is that rebellious little girls will misuse it to get useless degrees while they drink and party and ride the carousel away from their parents' ability to keep them from doing stupid shit 24/7/365. This will ruin women and thus our civilization even worse than it already is.
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[–]StiuNu53 points54 points55 points (9 children) | Copy Link
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