MGTOW versus CBT

YouSaidChicken · 2021-01-07T00:56:39+00:00

Interesting. I've only had good relationships with women. They're just not worth the relationship in the long run. Short term, sure. Long term, don't see the personal benefit to such an association.

Frequentbadideas · 2021-01-07T01:41:25+00:00

I went through CBT last year for my Combat PTSD, it was a shit show, dragging up things I'd spent 16 years trying to bury, got to the point I was puking before my appointments. No thanks, ill do without.

CuriousIncel2 · 2021-01-07T02:05:20+00:00

This approach makes sense if the fear is unjustified. Surrounding yourself with snakes doesn't make sense, all it takes in one poisonous (venomous?) snake to kill you.

In my opinion, the answer is to educate yourself as much as you can about snakes, so you can learn to stay away from the poisonous (venomous?) ones. After a while you begin to wonder if you really want snakes in your life, or if you might just have better things to do.

Perseus_the_Bold · 2021-01-07T20:04:21+00:00

You're comparing applies and oranges. Women are nothing like fear, these are totally different things. Most MGTOW do not retreat from women out of fear, we mostly retreat out of cognitive/moral disgust and anger when it is a matter of impulse. The rest of the time, we retreat from women as a matter of principle and wise judgement. Look into Parasite-avoidance theory for example, which states in brief:

"All free-living animals are subject to intense selection pressure from parasites and pathogens resulting in behavioural adaptations that can help potential hosts to avoid falling prey to parasites." Source: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/325567336_Evolution_of_pathogen_and_parasite_avoidance_behaviours

"The costs imposed by pathogens [women in MGTOW's case] on their hosts have spurred the evolution of complex antipathogen [female avoidance] defenses, many of which are behavioral." Source: https://www.pnas.org/content/113/44/12408 Emphasis mine.

It is natural and expected that one would, and should, resent anything that is proven to be harmful to them through trials and experiences. Again, allow me to clarify the terms here: Resentment is NOT Fear. Avoiding women is not a fear of them nor is it hatred of them. It's more along the lines of disgust and indifference.

Being weary, fed up, tired with, annoyed, and irritated with women does not translate into fear nor hatred of them just as one does not usually develop a fear or hatred of traffic just because being careless while crossing the street could result in severe injury or death. Women are thus more like daily traffic. You have to mind it, understand it, and yes even deal with it or else you get nowhere or you end up getting mowed down. Women are just another force of nature that we have to deal with like storms, aging, diseases, trees, sunlight, time, etc.

Avoiding women is nothing like avoiding germs. Going our own way means sanitizing our life from women because of the benefits that this course of action brings to our lives. We are literally better off without them. A notion that absolutely terrifies the shit out of feminists by the way, which is why they have doubled their attacks and smear campaigns against MGTOW and no longer pay as much attention to incels or conservatives.

Going MGTOW is not the same as going germ free because women's influence does not make a man immune nor resilient to their shit, it actually erodes his strength, his health, patience, time, and resources which he could better invest in himself or with good friends or other personal pursuits. No good comes from tolerating women's bullshit in your life, it will not make you stronger, it will weaken you in many subtle ways that will culminate in your capitulation to her will and her interests at the expense of yours.

I don't know if you are aware of this but seemingly the great majority of MGTOW have never been '**hurt by women.'** Just as the vast majority of people who are weary of venomous creatures have never been bitten or stung by one.

BroscienceGuy · 2021-01-07T14:57:21+00:00

When you have gotten bitten by a snake, you don't surround yourself with many other snakes, because chances are that you'll be bitten by all of them.

[deleted] · 2021-01-07T05:21:02+00:00

[removed]

chalchium · 2021-01-07T06:26:22+00:00

If that works, just throw PTSD soldiers into more gruesome wars would cure their condition.

marche_ck · 2021-01-07T14:27:45+00:00

I am not qualified in this field, so take these with a grain of salt.

In my opinion CBT has one big flaw, in that it the therapist may arrive to a wrong conclusion and continuously expose the client to the object of fear, without ever addressing the underlying cause. It can be counterproductive, and even damaging.

CBT can be effective if the cause of the anxiety can be precisely identified, if the client has a phobia of dogs from being bitten by a stay dog as a child for example. Therapy can then start by introducing a "safe object", such as a muzzled puppy leashed to a tree, then have the client gradually exposed to it by first trying to stand close to it, then gradually trying to sit near it, then taking the leash and so on. All while guiding the client to challenge his fight or flight response.

But human condition is rarely that simple.

Society tend see mgtow men as having a fear of commitment, fear of heartbreak, fear of strong women, fear of being seen as weak and so on. That couldn't be further from the truth. Because the root of fear in this community stems from a general loss of trust.

The usual advice is to gradually exposed to these wrongly identified factors by trying out speed dating and try to be more comfortable of showing our voulneablities etc. But thrusting a guy, who had grown suspicious of female behaviour in general, to meet a female stranger, whose reputation was not known beforehand, all alone, will never work.

It is the same thing with shoving our dog phobia example towards a random dog of unknown origin and background, without any clue on its temperament other than the colour of its fur, and without putting any safeguard in place. And he has to do it alone. It would be stupid for him not to give up and run away.

As the problem stems from death of trust, a proper CBT in this case should be by first creating a highly secured world and have the mgtow man interact with it, gradually building up his faith in society and have him challenge his cynicism towards the world. That calls for recruiting women who are proven to be trustworthy to be "dating surrogates", living a mock married life in a society that is guaranteed to still honour righteousness, in a mock nation with a judicial system that is guaranteed to uphold fairness and justice and a world which it's God is guaranteed to punish sinners.

Needless to say this is impossible. Even if we scale down to just focus on distrust in dating and romance, I can't think of any way to create this therapeutic environment in the at all. Pumping your date with truth serum the whole time will not be acceptable.

And for some people the issue are even more deep rooted. I grew up in a dysfunctional family, and I had grown up never knowing how being married and having a family should have look like. Naturally I have little interest in marriage. If the therapist wants me to challenge this, then the issue with my parents must first be solved. After they both can love each other, and become warm, loving, respectful parents again, and after we siblings have a taste of wholesome family life, only then we can be expected to regain interest in building our own families, while challenging our deep seated fear that it will eventually fall apart.

Even if all these can be done, there is still a final part of the therapy- on how to handle similar crisis in the future.

In our dog phobia case, after the client can comfortably play with a friendly adult Golden Retriever, he will still need to be educated on how to identify aggressive dogs, dogs with erratic behaviour etc, and how to best deal with the situation. Only then the client can be expected to be reasonably not afraid of dogs.There is no equivalent training with human relationships.

sadbasturd99 · 2021-01-07T17:36:04+00:00

If people want to torture themselves for sexual pleasure it is not business of mine.

[deleted] · 2021-01-07T02:18:09+00:00

[removed]

MGTOW_BEASTMODE · 2021-01-07T20:21:13+00:00

I've had lots of great experiences and relationships with women.. I just don't want to marry or live with one.

I have a few FWB that I've established over 20 years that when we are both single.. we hang out.. or DID before lockdowns. lol

Title	MGTOW versus CBT
Author	Werner_Renken
Upvotes	2
Comments	21
Date	January 7, 2021 12:31 AM UTC (5 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MGTOW2
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MGTOW2/comments/ks19qy/mgtow_versus_cbt/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MGTOW2/mgtow-versus-cbt.803085 https://theredarchive.com/post/803085

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