However, I feel that this is a case of Hanlon's Razor.
It really causes me distress that rather than have discussions on equal grounds, I was name-called, slandered, and had my thoughts referred to as "half-baked." All this, by someone who was simply hell bent on assuring themselves that there's no way a woman would write these things.
Which brings me to the phase,
"She doth protest too much."
A phase most commonly understood as
"This person is trying too hard to defend themselves, so the opposite is likely true."
In this case, that would refer to their insinuation that I don't understand "toxic masculinity" whilst they themselves are being guilty of toxic femininity.
Now, what the hell does this have to do with men's rights?
To me, this is a perfect display of the problems that men face in their average attempt at a discussion with a radical feminist. (Not all feminists are evil.) It's simply the fact that a large portion of women operate/communicate via emotion (I feel...), as to where a large portion of men will commonly communicate with logic (I think...). Source, Source, and more Source.
This can make it very difficult for males to have a conversation with females about why they have a flaw in their logic, simply because they feel they are right. Yet in turn, females will commonly share their emotionally charged views, and get upset when someone says the contrary. Their disdain and rage at you for disagreeing and telling them their logic is flawed come shooting off like a string of a thousand firecrackers. Hell, they will spat emotions at anyone who disagrees with their agenda, which causes even the more logical of people to sometimes get crass.
So the logical ones sit back and walk away... Not because we realize we're wrong, but rather, because we aren't remotely interested in getting tangled up in that ugly mess of verbal hatred. The reason men sit back is not because they are wrong, but it's simply easier to let her think she's right.
So what can be done about it?
Ask questions, don't try to force them to see your point of view. The Socratic Method will be the best .45 you can keep in your back pocket.
Fighting against toxic conversations is in everyone's interest if we want to make progress for men's rights. I'd like to hear you're thoughts/feedback.
*Remember, my "...only interaction with women has been talking to his mother and leering at girls in his school..." so sorry if I'm wrong.
Edited for grammatical issues.
[–]iainmf 23 points24 points25 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]HotDealsInTexas 8 points9 points10 points (4 children) | Copy Link
[+]I-beheaded-a-fly1 points [recovered] (3 children) | Copy Link
The top half I agree with, but I'd like to address the second part of your statement.
I'd say isn't a completely gendered issue. I can agree there. Yes, men can definitely be every bit of emotional as women. I was simply presenting that there has been plenty of studies that show, in general, men are more likely to be thinkers; women are more likely to be feelers.
This ties into what you just touched upon regarding feelings being weighed upon rather than feelings. (I was actually going to write about that topic but didn't want to write a full essay on my first post here.)
Therein, we find the fallacy in the endless argument of feelings. Someone can feel any way they please about a topic, but when push comes to shove, logic is a rock and feelings are just dust in the wind. If I took you to court and said, "I feel he owes me $1000 for the awful haircut he gave me! It's caused me to be self conscious and I missed 3 days of work because of the anxiety it gave me!" I would get told that it was a ridiculous claim and possibly fined for wasting court resources to pursue such a dispute.
Now, let's rewind. Instead of going to court, this time I cry to all my friends. I whine on yelp, I tell everyone how awful the haircut you gave me was, and how my self esteem was ruined. People sympathize, they value how I feel, and in turn also tell others about what a terrible place your shop is for haircuts. MY FEELINGS MATTER!! and you. will. pay.
See how just by taking my feelings and crying to others I could still damage a business? Over what? A haircut that I didn't like? That's why people are relying on the weight of feelings. They want others to sympathize, and join their cause. It's a form of manipulation, and frankly, I think it's disgusting.
This brings us right back to it partially being a gendered issue.
A lot of women are very empathetic and value feelings. Which is why it can easily be seen that a group of women is more likely to care about that awful haircut you gave me. If I whined to a group of men about an awful haircut, chances are I wouldn't get nearly the same type of emotional sympathy that I got from the group of women.
With women (generally) placing a higher value on feelings, it's easy to see how they want to defend how they feel. In turn, when they don't get an answer they like [Ex: Just ask for a refund and go get a different haircut elsewhere.] They look for sympathy. This will cause others to join them in taking your awful haircut place down. Aka: Brigading.
Hence why arguing with someone with a feelings-based thought pattern is going to go nowhere because, "You just don't get it, do you?"
[–]HotDealsInTexas 3 points4 points5 points (2 children) | Copy Link
[+]I-beheaded-a-fly1 points [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link
Social conditioning is a good factor to look at when assessing why we all act the way we do, and it actually is a big part of how genders are treated differently.
Yes. Girls are commonly raised with a huge push to express their feelings, and are praised for it. A good example is as simple as the playground. Let's say there's a group of 4. 3 boys, 1 girl. They play tag, but one of the boys goes to tag the girl and in the process accidentally knocks her down. She's not hurt, just upset that she fell. She starts crying. The parent comes over and scoops her up and tells her it's okay, boys are big meany heads. She doesn't play with them again and parent later gets her an ice cream. She just learned that her feelings being hurt will get her attention. But, the 3 boys just learned that if a girl cries, she needs to be taken care of.
Same situation, but reverse. 3 girls, 1 boy, still playing tag, girl knocks boy down. He starts crying. He's not hurt, just upset that he fell. The parent comes over, dusts him off, and assures him that he's fine. Don't cry, it's just a game. Go on, go play, they're just girls. He just learned that how he feels doesn't matter and he needs to "suck it up." But, the 3 girls just learned that if the boy cries that it's not a big deal.
I have spent enough time at parks to notice that there's often times a difference in how parents will treat their children based on gender. This is the exact type of social conditioning that will set up the children's views of how to treat opposite genders. Kids are very impressionable, and people don't always think that how they treat their kid will effect someone else's kids, but it most certainly can/does.
This is what later in life turns into: A woman says she doesn't feel safe walking home, so the 3 boys from the childhood park will offer to keep her safe on her way to her place. We wouldn't want her to not feel safe! Vice versa, the man later in life will say he doesn't feel safe walking to his car, but the 3 women from his childhood will just assure him he'll be fine and they keep doing what they're doing. It doesn't matter if he doesn't feel safe, he'll be okay.
Now, to tie this all together; please refer back to how women are often feelers/men are often thinkers. But this time look at it with the social conditioning in place. All of it is a part of the huge spiderweb that is psychology of the human mind. You don't need a degree to see patterns and make basic assessments.
That's exactly where you are 100% about both genders often valuing women's feelings more than men's on a general basis. Men simply do not get the same sympathy that women do. More often than not, they are treated like they're weak for expressing their emotions. It's sad, but there is a divide in how your gender can cause a situation to change drastically.
Luckily, as of lately, it is (slowly) becoming more socially acceptable for men to share their emotions openly. It may not hold true for the majority of the older crowd, but as they say, people get set in their ways. So it's up to the younger generation to really get the changes rolling, and as the older generation, we can help mold them by sharing our fuck-ups and years of wisdom.
[–]-manatease 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]-manatease 8 points9 points10 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]I-beheaded-a-fly2 points [recovered] | Copy Link
[–]DevoutSubculture 2 points3 points4 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]I-beheaded-a-fly2 points [recovered] | Copy Link
[–]SamHanes10 1 point2 points3 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]I-beheaded-a-fly1 point [recovered] | Copy Link
[–]Its_Not_Over_Yet 1 point2 points3 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]bortalizer93 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]armaadi 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]circlhat 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]rocelot7 0 points1 point2 points (4 children) | Copy Link
[–]I-beheaded-a-fly 4 points5 points6 points (3 children) | Copy Link
[–]rocelot7 1 point2 points3 points (2 children) | Copy Link
[–]I-beheaded-a-fly 3 points4 points5 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]rocelot7 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[+]GhostofB1 points [recovered] (20 children) | Copy Link
Another girl here trying to convince us that she gets us now because some women were mean to her. You're full of ridiculous generalisations.
[+]I-beheaded-a-fly1 points [recovered] (19 children) | Copy Link
Not remotely. But the fact that my gender matters to anyone is exactly the divide that causes issues. But alas. No one seems to get this. My gender should not be a factor in what ideas I choose to stand by. If you wish to turn away my support simply because I am a woman, that's one less voice to your cause.
[–]StorkKing 5 points6 points7 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]I-beheaded-a-fly6 points [recovered] | Copy Link
[+]GhostofB1 points [recovered] (16 children) | Copy Link
You were posting in two-x. I got banned from that subreddit without even posting there. They are a bunch of fucking cunts and they are not elected spokeswomen for all women, as you know. Yes, your gender matters to two-x, it's a female-centric subreddit.
Your gender doesn't matter here as long as you're talking about men's rights - which you're not. You're whining about another subreddit. It's petty rubbish that doesn't matter to anyone other than you.
[+]I-beheaded-a-fly1 points [recovered] (15 children) | Copy Link
It was an example, and I emboldened the question you seemed to skip over regarding how this fits into men's rights.
[–]ThePigmanAgain 3 points4 points5 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]I-beheaded-a-fly 1 point2 points3 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[+]GhostofB1 points [recovered] (12 children) | Copy Link
I fucking addressed this! You went to the home of cunts, two-x, and got the same experience anyone would get who doesn't agree with them. You, a female. That's NOT men's rights.
[–]DarthCerebroX 7 points8 points9 points (3 children) | Copy Link
[–]I-beheaded-a-fly3 points [recovered] | Copy Link
[+]GhostofB1 points [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link
I don't have rage, I have eyes.
[–]PowerToAnnihilate 1 point2 points3 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]Optickone 0 points1 point2 points (7 children) | Copy Link
[+]GhostofB1 points [recovered] (6 children) | Copy Link
I hope my stinky shit is alienating morons from our cause.
I'd love to see how a radical feminist could use anything I've said against men's rights. Do tell.
[–]Optickone 0 points1 point2 points (5 children) | Copy Link
[+]GhostofB1 points [recovered] (4 children) | Copy Link
That's an outright lie. This is the problem here, almost none of you cunts have the ability to actually tell the truth about what's going on. Almost every allegation is either a fabrication or a gross exaggeration. I call people on their shit, and I also make a lot of arguments. You lying about me makes you a valid target of my vitriol.
I notice you make NO argument against how a radical feminist could use anything I've said against men's rights. As I expected. You're the type of arsehole who just throws baseless crap out with no integrity. I'll justify and explain every one of my positions, you can't because you're a spineless cunt.
[–]Optickone 1 point2 points3 points (3 children) | Copy Link
[–]nisutapasion -2 points-1 points0 points (0 children) | Copy Link