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Botched circumcision requires 3 corrective surgeries. Doctor cleared of wrongdoing. Parents disappointed by the outcome.

[deleted]

October 23, 2011

36 upvotes

/r/MensRights

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/doctor-cleared-of-wrongdoing-in-botched-circumcision-2913919.html

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Post Information

Title	Botched circumcision requires 3 corrective surgeries. Doctor cleared of wrongdoing. Parents disappointed by the outcome.
Author	[deleted]
Upvotes	36
Comments	50
Date	October 23, 2011 3:54 AM UTC (14 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/llp8k/botched_circumcision_requires_3_corrective/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/botched-circumcision-requires-3-corrective.1032725 https://theredarchive.com/post/1032725

Comments

[–]plesiosaur 13 points14 points15 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 6 points7 points8 points 14 years ago (45 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 6 points7 points8 points 14 years ago* (16 children) | Copy Link

[–]loony636 4 points5 points6 points 14 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points1 point 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points1 point 14 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points6 points 14 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points1 point 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Lugonn -4 points-3 points-2 points 14 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points5 points 14 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]Lugonn -4 points-3 points-2 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points1 point 14 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] -2 points-1 points0 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Lugonn -3 points-2 points-1 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]z3ddicus -2 points-1 points0 points 14 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 14 years ago* (3 children) | Copy Link

What evidence is there that someone acted irresponsibly?

Unfortunately, it's never about truth, it's about evidence and what you can prove. There are two sides of the story here.

1) Expert witness Dr Gordon Watson, a consultant surgeon, had said that given the level of Dr Hussain's experience he would not have delegated the procedure to him and, had he, he would have supervised it more thoroughly.
2) Expert witness appearing on behalf of Dr Buckley, consultant surgeon Dr Ronan Waldron, contradicted this and said he felt the registrar was amply experienced.

Whom to believe? The charges couldn't be proven beyond a reasonable doubt.

What evidence is there that this would have played out differently had the child been female?

Don't see how this is relevant. Not everything has to be seen from the lens of gender warfare.

[–]A_Nihilist 0 points1 point2 points 14 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 14 years ago* (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]A_Nihilist 0 points1 point2 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]kanuk876[🍰] 6 points7 points8 points 14 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] -3 points-2 points-1 points 14 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]kanuk876[🍰] 0 points1 point2 points 14 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 14 years ago* (2 children) | Copy Link

My... bias? I never said anything about circumcision in general, just medically justified circumcision. It's a legitimate surgery in some cases.

I don't understand why other cases are involved here. It's an irrelevant number, and totally unrelated to this case. You think I'm biased, but I'm trying to bring some medical logic to this case.

Your bias is far more evident. I raised no opinions in this thread thus far. None. You are accusing me of that, and I think that's preposterous.

Edit: If someone has something to disagree with here, may I recommend a response instead of a downvote? I'm an ardent MRA, and I follow rediquette. I've made no downvotes thus far, and I've raised nothing but factual points. If you guys want to disagree with me, I'd recommend an honest discussion instead of an anonymous downvote. You're making the discussion worse by doing so.

[–]kanuk876[🍰] -1 points0 points1 point 14 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

To start, I didn't downvote you.

Circumcision is seldom necessary, even in medical cases involving paraphimosis. What they did to this child is akin to amputating a hand to treat a minor finger deformity.

Paraphimosis can be treated with a few, small, carefully placed incisions. There is zero need for amputation, zero need for loss of tissue -- only a lessening of the tension in the ridged band.

Yet...

You have discussed "facts" which implicitly advocate amputation.

Why I'm raging on you is because your so-called objectiveness has hidden assumptions and bias which you refuse to admit.

How this boy's life would be different if his doctor had opted for careful incisions instead of amputation. It would be much better.

Yet at every point in this thread, your basic argument is: amputation was appropriate in this case.

I vehemently disagree.

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points1 point 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

First, I didn't accuse you of downvoting me. I did suspect it; I won't lie about that. It's nice to know that you didn't though! I always appreciate a good debate.

The appropriate metaphor here is amputating a finger to save a hand. The entire penis would have been lost if not for the intervention. Occasionally a mistake will be made that will necessitate the total amputation of the hand after that fact, but I think any rational person would prefer just losing a finger over the hand.

Secondly, it's so fucking disingenuous to call this amputation. It's removal of tissue, but that in no way makes it amputation. Even if it was, it was medically necessary in this point. No one would be bitching about a finger being removed, and just because it involves a penis doesn't make it a Men's Rights issue.

If you disagree with the trained medical doctors' opinions on the fact, and you aren't a doctor, then just give up. They determined this was necessary, and it is from time to time.

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points7 points 14 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 14 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 14 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]z3ddicus -2 points-1 points0 points 14 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points1 point 14 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]z3ddicus -4 points-3 points-2 points 14 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[+][deleted] -6 points-5 points-4 points 14 years ago* (2 children) | Copy Link

That's rediquette. Only a small subset of people actually follow rediquette. Most people will hit the downvote button on anything they disagree with because they don't have a valid argument but still believe to the contrary. Another alternative is that they have an argument but choose not to make it. I strongly believe that the former is the prime cause of most downvotes though.

Edit: It's worth noting that MRAs are just as bad as feminists on this issue, regardless of what they want to believe. People are people, and the vast majority of people accept their opinions for ultimately baseless or vengeful reasons and have no real base for an argument. As I said before, I support Men's Rights, but I'll never identify as an MRA because of the ideology associated with it.

Edit 2: There are also two reasons I really don't care.

First, regardless of my positions, I have the karma to make sure that no matter what I say that I'm not seen as a troll when I make them. I also have other accounts with much, much greater karma counts if karma somehow became an issue. I just don't think it's worth looking at in the first point.

Second, when the day crew comes on they'll probably agree with me here. The night crew is generally far more condemning, pedantic, and assholish than the day crew.

[–]z3ddicus -3 points-2 points-1 points 14 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]ZQMFGB -2 points-1 points0 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]kanuk876[🍰] -2 points-1 points0 points 14 years ago* (10 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 14 years ago* (9 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points6 points 14 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] -3 points-2 points-1 points 14 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

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[–]loony636 0 points1 point2 points 14 years ago* (3 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] -3 points-2 points-1 points 14 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]loony636 2 points3 points4 points 14 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points1 point 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] -2 points-1 points0 points 14 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]loony636 0 points1 point2 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]z3ddicus 0 points1 point2 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link