Could do better: An inquiry into effective action for men and boys — The Centre for Male Psychology

g1455ofwater · 2023-06-24T03:00:51+00:00

The overall article seemed a bit strange to me in that it felt like I was reading sort of a post from a traditional masculinity advocate type of piece or right wing if you want to frame it politically. It's very sort of "here's how men can man up and be real men" even though it doesn't use those words that's the feel of a large portion of it. That's not all a bad thing in terms of teaching kids how to behave but it's much less useful in terms of men's rights because it's a smaller part of the problem but also it's something that is already well covered already, men get told to "man up" on the regular so that's not something that really brings anything new or useful to the table. Very little focus on increasing empathy for men or changing the world to be more helpful towards men which to me are the far bigger problems.

They contrast Andrew Tate messages with messages boys hear in schools but those are pretty ridiculous things to lump together, Andrew Tate is just one guy and isn't in the same universe in terms of impact on a child as a school. Not only that why call him out by name but all the damage from the school systems but they don't get anyone directly called out? That's bogus.

While radical-feminist ideology is influential, its power seems over-estimated, perhaps because of the lack of an effective pro-male response.

They use radical-feminist as if regular feminist is better or they aren't all radical for believing in feminism. Maybe a small thing or something that slipped by but people that know about men's issues know the core of feminism itself is the problem not just some fringe radicals.

Choosing victimhood and the ‘comfort zone of failure’ to stay in their ‘pain cave’.

What the heck is this "choosing victimhood?" it sounds like misandrist talk. Who is allowed to be a victim? Not men apparently. They even say elsewhere in the article that men "put up with things". Well of course they do because if they don't they will be told they are "choosing victimhood".

We concluded that, to a significant degree, we should not assume that a group or network of volunteer men will achieve significant change. Effective action will be best achieved by raising funds and employing non-traumatised men or women to undertake campaigning tasks in a professional manner.

I'll leave this post on something I liked. Expecting the traumatized to be the change makers never made sense to me because they have been beaten, warped and damaged by the trauma. It's like rescuing someone that has been alone in the wilderness and then the rescuers with that person becoming stranded and saying we better send out this person we just rescued to go out and save us. No, if you are sending someone out you send out the strongest ones not the people barely hanging on.

shit-zen-giggles · 2023-06-24T06:48:45+00:00

I think the authors make quite a few good points. I find it interesting that they arrived at pretty much the same conclusion as Alison Tieman (honey badger radio), albeit they haven't developed it as conclusively as Alision has. This is not a surprise because they have only started to contemplate this issue, while Alison has spent years thinking it through and refining it.

Their manifesto never the less seems good to me as does the insight that you can't expect a loosely knight group of volunteers to go perform with the same effectiveness as a multi-billion dollar international industry (aka the feminist movement).

MANifesto for an effective men’s movement Ten points to promote a message of positive masculinity that: MEN can embrace, FAMILIES benefit from, SOCIETY is crying out for, POLITICIANS can support, COURTS fully recognise, which will benefit EVERYONE:

Striving for a world in which men are honoured and respected for the special contribution they make to family and society and where men aspire to live that special contribution.

Recognising that empowered, capable men who bring vision, action, wisdom and empathy to their families create a lasting le.g.acy not just within their homes but across society.

Understanding that men have the right to equality in the criminal justice and family court system, and that this benefits children, women and society.

Addressing the role model crisis, where extreme ideology is pouring into a vacuum around men and boys. We seek to inspire a new generation of role models who demonstrate timeless male virtues to current and future generations.

Recognising that men are women’s best allies and women are men’s best allies. This is the basis upon which the human race is predicated and the real adversary is the tiny minority seeking to pit men and women against one another in identity politics and a battle of the sexes.

Presenting information and advocacy in an honest and transparent fashion that is based on evidence rather than ideology.

Seeking out partnerships with women’s groups who share our vision, recognising the benefit this has for women, children and society.

Encouraging men to speak out about double standards, inequality and situations where they feel gagged and marginalised because they are fearful of being shamed by critical ideology.

Empowering men to recognise that while masculinity has been vilified, our strength lies in our ability to overcome adversity and empower others to do the same.

Standing unapologetically for the special contribution men give to society, and working collectively to publicise this fact. Then equipping men with the tools, resources and encouragement to make their own special contribution.

Annual_Anxiety_4457 · 2023-06-24T09:48:46+00:00

I liked their model of a male activist. I very much ended up as a M- incel type male thanks to my feminist upbringing and they recognized this as a problem.

TheShadowofMen · 2023-06-24T21:38:59+00:00

What is the point of asking questions and generating discussion related to Men's Rights if the mods are just going to delete my thread?

Vaudeville_Clown · 2023-06-29T17:41:31+00:00

All parts of this doesn't quite work but this was clearly not written by an NPC. There's quite a bit of original thought, and a few drops of gold even.

I found these parts very interesting:

"Avoid using men as an in-group"

"Normalise the issue by using normal language – avoid ‘rights’, ‘prejudice’, ‘feminist’ etc. Speak and act as though our concern is just like any other."

The thing is, both these parts may feel instinctively wrong. Doesn't it water out the idea of Men's Rights, and detract from it? Not at all. This is a clever tactic Keep the agenda in your head, but circumvent other people's biases, ick-feelings and reservations by taking (at least seemingly) position outside gender culture wars. From there, start seeding doubt and influence others.

Never take woke words into your mouth! Also don't use opposite-ended mirror equivalents. Fashion yourself as a principled egalitarian or something else people won't reflexively identify as wrong.

When anonymous and online, that is another matter entirely.

ConestogaCreek · 2023-07-02T13:24:09+00:00

I hate psychologists or any other form of “behavioral health clinician”. They are all “tits on a bull” worthless.

Hi-my-name-is-slim · 2023-07-02T22:25:01+00:00

Why not hold women accountable for constantly siring fatherless children, how about stop having babies at ridiculous ages, how about actually thinking before u shit out a humam being wether YOU can support it. Make sure the dad is in there lives, make sure he wants the kid and not just you, like selfish cunts, this one annoys me as i was baby trapped myself.

Title	Could do better: An inquiry into effective action for men and boys — The Centre for Male Psychology
Author	Heavy_Grand2526
Upvotes	49
Comments	8
Date	June 24, 2023 12:57 AM UTC (3 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/14hf4o7/could_do_better_an_inquiry_into_effective_action/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/could-do-better-an-inquiry-into-effective-action.1223301 https://theredarchive.com/post/1223301

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