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hate bounces

internethardman

August 2, 2011

10 upvotes

/r/MensRights

http://reocities.com/RainForest/vines/3951/noback/hatebounces.html

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Post Information

Title	hate bounces
Author	internethardman
Upvotes	10
Comments	39
Date	August 2, 2011 11:11 PM UTC (15 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/j762k/hate_bounces/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/hate-bounces.1036355 https://theredarchive.com/post/1036355

Comments

[–]Qutter 4 points5 points6 points 15 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Revorob 2 points3 points4 points 15 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 15 years ago (30 children) | Copy Link

[–]daulm 0 points1 point2 points 15 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 15 years ago* (3 children) | Copy Link

I disagree. I think that another story about a woman who lived in some other part of the world where women were treated with spite and hatred, and who grew up to not want anything to do with men, if that story were read by men would you expect them to respond by being offended? I wouldn't. I would expect them to respond with sympathy and compassion.

Let's make this clear: This man is not the problem. The culture which treated him like shit for doing nothing wrong. That culture is the problem. The fact that this kind of writing is regarded so poorly, is dismissed so easily, by so many people, is precisely the problem.

And really, any woman who reads this and thinks "He's just a misogynist, not all women are like that" probably is like that. And any man who reacts that way is a white knight. Making men's feelings not only visible but acceptable is precisely the goal of the MRM.

[–]daulm 1 point2 points3 points 15 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

I think that another story about a woman who lived in some other part of the world where women were treated with spite and hatred, and who grew up to not want anything to do with men, if that story were read by men would you expect them to respond by being offended? I wouldn't. I would expect them to respond with sympathy and compassion.

But if the woman writing the story was not in another part of the world, and was referring to experiences she had with the men in her community, and for the sake of argument, let's pretend her story was true. I think in this case, men would not sympathize with her too much, they'd say "I'm not like that, that isn't the way a good man would behave."

You see, I sympathize with this man in the OP's article. I don't hate women or think they are evil, but I do think our culture tolerates and encourages poor behavior from women in many cases. My problem with the article is that it completely alienates all of the women who "get it" and don't hold double standards, take responsibility, and treat people with respect.

We have a fucked up culture, but for the author to paint all women as men haters is unfair to many women and counterproductive to men's rights.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 15 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

I understand your point and it is fair. However, the alternative is to ignore and censor these voices. I think it's important for them to be heard.

We aren't saying all women are like that and we aren't saying all women deserve scorn. But we are saying we need to have a conversation about these kind of experiences which are frequently ignored or dismissed. So if they think we are targeting all women, including them, they are mistaken. And I think that's what needs to be said to them.

The way I see it, women who are going to be offended by this kind of thing will fall into one of two groups. First, women who actually are like that, whom we can safely ignore. And second, women who are perfectly nice people but just don't understand that this is a serious issue and don't understand why we need to talk about it. But this is going to be a long fight and it's more important to stick to our values than it is to win some quick sympathy. Eventually I think most women will understand and will come around. What do you think?

[–]daulm 1 point2 points3 points 15 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[+]CoonTown 15 years ago [recovered] (24 children) | Copy Link

I dunno, I think this kind of reads like a "Why did you make me hit you?" or "I wasn't racist till I started talking to blacks" argument. Saying a large, heterogeneous group somehow made you hate them doesn't justify the hate to begin with. I understand people can become misogynists because of the actions of a few women, but that is hardly an excuse.

The worst part is, it seems like he understands that it's completely illogical to become a misogynist, but he's just going to continue to hate. It's a bit sad.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 15 years ago (23 children) | Copy Link

[+]CoonTown 15 years ago [recovered] (22 children) | Copy Link

I never accused him of violence? I don't think hating any large, heterogeneous group (men, women, blacks, homosexuals, etc.) is right, no matter how much you think they "made you hate them". Racism and sexism is never justified in my mind.

Honestly, thinking of this as a "gender war" isn't very mature. It's not a zero sum game. Men and women shouldn't be fighting to take away each other's rights, that isn't how equality works.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 15 years ago (21 children) | Copy Link

[+]CoonTown 15 years ago [recovered] (20 children) | Copy Link

Yes, clearly me saying "Don't hate people" makes me a racist. Get a fucking clue.

No surprise that you browse stormfront though. Explains a lot.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 15 years ago (19 children) | Copy Link

[+]CoonTown 15 years ago [recovered] (18 children) | Copy Link

You're grasping for straws. Everyone who disagrees with you is not a troll, and I think you have to be off your rocker to claim, "I don't think people should hate others due to race, sex, orientation, or creed" is trolling.

You're basically saying "I can't intelligently respond to your points, so here are some ad homs". Keep hating if you want, I really don't care, but hate doesn't do anyone any good.

"Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. " -Martin Luther King Jr.

EDIT: I know MLK is probably not someone you Stormfronters care for very much, but it's a good quote nonetheless :)

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 15 years ago (17 children) | Copy Link

I don't think everyone who disagrees with me is a troll. I just think you are a troll. I think this because you've been here forever and you never say anything constructive.

Here's what you don't understand: I'm not hating. There is no hate in me, not for women, not even for feminists. Unlike the man in the story, I am only in my mid-twenties and I have an awesome girlfriend. I have grown up in a world where the experiences this story describes are becoming less and less common.

I'm not supporting hate. I'm not advocating that men should hate women. And I'm not trying to encourage the gender war. I want to end it, but unlike you I don't think ignoring the victims of the gender war is a good way to do that.

Let's make this perfectly clear: The reason this man became a misogynist is because his feelings have been dismissed and ignored over a lifetime. They were dismissed because of his gender. Continuing to dismiss and disregard the feelings of men will not end the gender war, that will continue it.

Of course, I've explained all of this to you before, as have others, and yet here you are telling us we shouldn't be listening to men's feelings. Maybe this will be the time?

[+]CoonTown 15 years ago [recovered] (16 children) | Copy Link

I'm not saying don't listen to his feelings. But by telling him his hate is right and justified, you are enabling him to continue hating. Hate should not be glorified and celebrated. He is using the actions of a few bad women as an excuse to hate all women. This is just as wrong as the guys at Stormfront using a few bad African-Americans as an excuse to hate all blacks.

The vast majority of women are not terrible. This man should recognize that, and not be praised for his blind hatred of a huge group.

EDIT: If by "not saying anything constructive" you mean not circlejerking, sorry?

[–][deleted]2 points 15 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Uhg. This is not about the actions of a "few bad women". This is not a story about a man who grew up in a society which respected and empathized with men, but suddenly decided to start hating women because he had a couple bad experiences. He is not making 'excuses' for his misogyny, he is explaining how he came to feel that way. It is a critique of man-bashing, not an excuse for misogyny. How do you not get this?

And, no, it's nothing like stormfront. Stormfront is an ideology of hatred based on the idea of racial superiority. Do you see anything in his story about how much better men are than women? Do you see him making any universal statements about the value of the sexes? Cause I don't. I see a man explaining abuse and the effects that abuse has.

My god, this is just like the whole slutwalk fiasco. No one's actually blaming rape victims for getting raped and yet somehow that's the only thing people like you seem to hear.

[–]CoonTown-1 point 15 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Uhg. This is not about the actions of a "few bad women". This is not a story about a man who grew up in a society which respected and empathized with men, but suddenly decided to start hating women because he had a couple bad experiences. He is not making 'excuses' for his misogyny, he is explaining how he came to feel that way. It is a critique of man-bashing, not an excuse for misogyny. How do you not get this?

Okay, by your logic this man is a misogynist because of some vast, man-hating culture which marginalizes all men in favor of women, correct? If this holds true, why isn't a greater portion of the male population misogynists? Could it be that becoming a misogynist is an abnormal response to society? Possibly that extending blind hatred to all women is not something normal people do?

Nope, this guy is very clearly trying to blame society as a whole for "making him hate women". He describes how contact with various "man-hating" feminists made him a misogynist. It is a complete logical failure on his part to equate "Some feminists were mean to me" with "I hate all women".

All hate should be exterminated. Sexism, racism, agism, get rid of em all. This is glorifying hate, and a blatant attempt for this guy to blame others for his own irrational hatred.

EDIT: Because I know this is coming: If this was a woman writing about becoming a misandrist, I would have the same reaction. I honestly hope this guy gets help, and learns how to manage his anger and get rid of his hate.

[–][deleted]2 points 15 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]CoonTown-1 point 15 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–][deleted]2 points 15 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]CoonTown-1 point 15 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]demiurgency2 points 15 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]CoonTown1 point 15 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]demiurgency1 point 15 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]CoonTown1 point 15 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]demiurgency1 point 15 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–][deleted]1 point 15 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]CoonTown-1 point 15 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–][deleted]1 point 15 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]CoonTown-1 point 15 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points1 point 15 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[+]MuForceShoelace -7 points-6 points-5 points 15 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 15 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]demiurgency 4 points5 points6 points 15 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 15 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Revorob 0 points1 point2 points 15 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link