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MRI show brain structure permanently altered by infant circumcision (link to study in article)

blueorange22_

February 9, 2020
50 upvotes
/r/MensRights
http://www.drmomma.org/2009/10/mri-studies-brain-permanently-altered.html
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Post Information
Title MRI show brain structure permanently altered by infant circumcision (link to study in article)
Author

blueorange22_

Upvotes 50
Comments 17
Date February 9, 2020 11:05 PM UTC
(6 years ago)
Subreddit Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/f1gv1z/mri_show_brain_structure_permanently_altered_by/
Archive Link https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/mri-show-brain-structure-permanently-altered-by.1200726
https://theredarchive.com/post/1200726
Top posts by blueorange22_

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So this is very scary- feminists in the UK are campaigning to have women who murder men released from prison. And it's working.

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Comments

[–]Ketsuni 11 points12 points13 points 6 years ago (14 children) | Copy Link

I am completely open to research that demonstrates the effects of circumcision, but this article suffers from improper research technique, lacked evidence of findings, and the implication of multiple broken laws. I do not believe this is the best article to be using as evidence or support.

[–]try_____another 6 points7 points8 points 6 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

The major problem is that, if the hospital’s ethics board are right, it is at least in Canada illegal to conduct the experiment properly. To do it ethically, it would have to be done somewhere many baby boys were circumcised for no medical reason in a medical setting and where MRI facilities were readily available. That doesn’t leave many countries to find somewhere it can be done properly without breaking any laws.

[–]Ketsuni 7 points8 points9 points 6 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Infant fMRI studies have been done before, and circumcision continues to be performed, medically necessary or not. I think a comparative study of uncircumcised and circumcised infants would be feasible.

If the results are permanent, as the article implies, I would also be interested if we could view the effects in older individuals. Less ideal, but it would at least provide further understanding on possible changes.

[–]try_____another 5 points6 points7 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

There have been population-scale studies indicating correlations between circumcision rates and assorted mental problems in adults: circumcision is commonly used as a proxy when studying the long term effect of neonatal pain or painkillers, but that risks confounding factors from cultural, economic, and medical institutional factors.

As far as I know there hasn’t been a direct person-by-person study, which is what’s really needed, though there could still be confounding factors.

[–]Ketsuni 4 points5 points6 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Correlational data is a good start, but you're right, I would prefer something more direct than population-scale or proxy studies. I haven't looked too deeply into other infant fMRI research, but I wonder if medical records were included. Maybe the data and scans from similar research can be borrowed from for preliminary study. As a controversial topic, I'd imagine being able to provide reason for further exploration would be beneficial.

[–]allSmallThings 1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

www.doctorsopposingcircumcision.org

Protect your children.

[–][deleted] 6 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–]Ketsuni -1 points0 points1 point 6 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

The studies linked at the bottom are also about circumcision, but they are in no way the same as, nor referenced in, the study you linked to.

Did you want links to proper research technique, the definition of lacked evidence, or laws regarding the use of hospital equipment and the destruction of medical records?

[–][deleted] 6 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–]Ketsuni 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

1) They cannot support MRI evidence because no MRIs were done.

2) You stated that "literally none [of what I said] was true" and quoted what I said about proper research, laws, and lacked evidence of the linked study. You had asked for links, so which one of my claims were you confused on?

3) I meant exactly what I stated. They are *related* articles. They did not use evidence from the study, and the study did not use evidence from them. They are on the same topic, but other than that, completely unrelated

[–][deleted] 6 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–]Ketsuni 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

"They concluded that if circumcision must be performed, it should be preceded by an injected anesthetic that is given time to take effect."

"These results have profound implications and highlight the need for pre-emptive and post-operative pain medicine for newborn infants."

Both support the use of anesthesia, something that wasn't used for ANY operations on infants earlier on. The 2nd article, which focuses on infants in the NICU, is the ONLY one that mentions anything about brain development.

So, looking at this and assuming all is correct (I do not want to track down original articles right now), we can say there's reason to investigate the effects of circumcision on the brain, particularly when the procedure is done without anesthesia.

Can we conclude that Tinari's "research" was accurate, or a decent article to use? No. It still suffers from all of the original flaws I listed.

[–][deleted] 6 years ago* (1 child) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–]Ketsuni 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I had initially posted pointing out the flaws of the linked article and suggesting that better sources be used. You are the one that derailed the conversation to the linked articles, both of which were interested and supportive of the use of anesthesia, but did not eliminate any flaws of Tinari's article.

I apologize for reading and responding to the articles you encouraged me to read... they definitely derailed the conversation.

[–]chaser469 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

"Drmomma.org" says it all

[–]blueorange22_[S] 4 points5 points6 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

The studies are linked.

[–]lporiginalg 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

A little bit of background info on the author:

https://www.vice.com/en_ca/article/mvpmzp/forcible-circumcision-turned-this-man-into-an-anti-circumcision-activist

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