[Shining example of "regret rape"] Rape is less bad if victim had sex with rapist before

TRPACC · 2014-09-07T16:23:16+00:00

Thats not regret rape, he admitted continuing for 15 mins after she said no.

englishradio · 2014-09-07T16:29:32+00:00

Months later, Rebecca came to believe that she had been so drunk at the time that her experience was technically rape.

technically rape? what the hell is that?

td9red · 2014-09-07T17:58:24+00:00

The first time....gray... The second time kinda sounds like rape. He admitted she said no, but he continued for 15 minutes until he climaxed.

redgreenyellowblu · 2014-09-07T20:07:06+00:00

What a mess. Clearly he took advantage of her intoxication the second time but he was also intoxicated and believes he did nothing wrong. But then also, she went to visit him the first time out of anger at her other boyfriend, and then she went out with him again after he allegedly raped her the first time? Sounds like he was her go-to fuck buddy when she was feeling bad.

We used to just look at sad events like this as learning experiences. Figure out why we keep doing the same things and then try to move on. Now someone (anybody else) has to be to blame for bad choices.

zazindicoot · 2014-09-07T18:28:14+00:00

Oh my. There are just too many separate issues crammed into one little over-simplified narrative.

I am not going to comment on this case in particular, since I am not a party to the investigation and I wasn't present in the room when these two sex, so I have no actual knowledge of what happened, just news-reported hearsay.

What I will note is that, for many young people, their first encounters with sex are fraught. It is something they've been indoctrinated their entire life to feel tremendously guilty about. And if their parents come to know about their sexual experiences, the parents often engage in all sorts of heavy-handed emotional manipulation. It seems to be frequent that these cases don't come to formal procedures until after the girl's parents have come to know about the fact that she had sex.

Alcohol definitely has a very special connection with sex. It lowers social inhibitions of both men and women but anyone who has had experience with drunk women knows that it especially lowers women's sexual inhibitions. Some men consciously attempt to take advantage of this fact, but women are at least as aware of alcohol's effects on themselves. It's impossible to settle whether a woman in a particular case was just going along or whether she was being manipulated. In general, as long as the participants are in the same age range, I would personally presume an absence of manipulation - a 20 year old girl is about as smart as a 20 year old guy, he has no advantage in terms of manipulating her.

In a courtroom, this girl's testimony will have already gotten her into hot water - she is exaggerating and trying to claim he raped her twice. Well, how is it that she failed to dial campus security the second time he wanted to go on a date with her? Who goes on a date and has drinks with someone that has raped them? She had had two occasions on which she had been raped, and on neither occasion did she contact the police or campus security in the immediate aftermath of the rape. While this does not, in itself, prove that a rape did not occur, it is a common pattern in these kinds of accusations:

"He raped me"
"We had sex multiple times before the supposed rape, I did not rape her, this was consensual sex that I guess she later regretted."
"It was rape all those other times, too."

On a side note, as someone who has been falsely accused of rape by an SO, I will note that prior sexual history does matter. In this case, it is of little weight because there was only one prior encounter. But for people who are in LTRs, it is a very important fact that they have sexual history on the question of whether a particular encounter was rape. As an example, consider the claim "It's my body, he has no right to touch me or do anything to me without my consent." This is true, as far as it goes, but it's missing a lot of crucial context. If I walk through the kitchen and playfully pat my SO on the butt, no one thinks this is a crime. If I walk down the sidewalk and playfully pat some random person on the butt, that is sexual assault. But, consent was not given in either case! So, there is some kind of "implicit consent" or "sexual easement" that exists by virtue of being in a LTR with someone.

The exact terms of this consent vary from relationship to relationship... some people are more "non-contact" and others are extremely physically affectionate. But that's the point... the actual norms of the particular relationship are what matters in determining whether a particular situation could possibly be considered rape or sexual assault. If a woman in a highly physically affectionate relationship (everyone constantly sees them making out in public, she regularly comes onto him, etc.) claims that she was sexually assaulted by her SO, this claim is automatically dubious... how could he have sexually assaulted her when pretty much all forms of contact are OK between them? Of course, if she was angry with him during an argument and he tried to come onto her, she may have been repulsed by his advances, but this is simply not sexual assault. We've allowed obviously different categories of behavior to be conflated and the language we use to discuss these topics has been corrupted, leading to confused thinking.

The general point is this: in he-said-she-said situations, there really is no way to be sure what, exactly happened. It's clear that she's upset with him but this only goes to show that she has a motive to lie (to get revenge for whatever slight has angered her). It is possible that she's angry with him because he raped her, but it's more likely that she's upset with him for some other reason. Without videotape or witnesses or some kind of objective evidence, however, we have no way to be sure that her anger stems from rape. Thus, rape being the less likely possibility, the preponderance of the evidence in a he-said-she-said situation is that no rape occurred. And that's for civil liability. The criminal standard of beyond reasonable doubt is even harder to jump.

Title	[Shining example of "regret rape"] Rape is less bad if victim had sex with rapist before
Author	wrez
Upvotes	0
Comments	26
Date	September 7, 2014 4:16 PM UTC (11 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/mensrights/comments/2fq6mc/shining-example-of-regret-rape-rape-is-less-bad-if/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/shining-example-of-regret-rape-rape-is-less-bad-if.1620834 https://theredarchive.com/post/1620834

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