The Problem with Gay Rights

avoiceformen · 2010-09-01T03:31:52+00:00

Gay activists have draped themselves in victim couture and made their grab for special government considerations. The resultant draconian intrusions and bullying on behalf of gays and other special interest groups is a core issue in the men’s movement, and for good reason.

Yes, it's definitely gays who are the bullies. And all that "victimization" is just purely a mask we hide behind /s

By embracing feminist ideology and misandry, gay men only buy into the myth that they are not, and shouldn’t be, men. And by allowing themselves to be co opted by a group of ideologues that hate men to the core, they have only further undermined solutions to their very real problems. And this leaves us with what we see in the “gay rights” movement today- a dissonant ideology that is designed to attack the very nature of who they are.

Care to offer any examples of this? As a gay man, I would love to know how I hate myself with my activism. I would also like to know how i have "embraced feminism and misandry".

The two current hot spot examples of this are gay marriage and military service. Roughly speaking, the activism that seeks to include gay men in these realms is, in reality, placing them directly in the crosshairs of corrupt family courts, and on the battlefield, where they can join straight men in being used as the cannon fodder of choice for hegemonic corporatism.

1) They are already in the crosshairs. They "aren't being placed there." Whether or not a soldier identifies publicly as gay, he is still in the battlefield.

2) How would gay men be abused by the family courts for being male? What is the judge going to decide? Give custody to the father and not...the father? The man has to pay alimony to...the man? When dealing with couples of the same sex it become nearly impossible to discriminate between them based on gender.

Also, and I don’t think this can be understated, pushing for legal recognition of gay marriage is a de facto endorsement of statist culture; a capitulation to recognizing the state, not the individual, as the ultimate authority over human relationships.

No, but it is the authority on legal relationships. You can continue to be an idealist and call for the destruction of "legal marriage" but it isn't going to happen. And it is with that stark reality in mind that gays call for legal recognition of their relationships.

It would seem sensible that since marriage, at least in western culture, is a religious institution, that men -all men- push for taking it out of the hands of government completely. Religious institutions would be able to marry whomever they please, which would ensure the rights of almost anyone to marry- and to suffer for it down the road.

When in western culture was it ever strictly a religious institution? As far as i know, marriage has always been tied to the state and starting somewhere in the 12th century the church co-oped it.

stemgang · 2010-09-01T05:42:55+00:00

Solving problems and making advances is what men do, and there is no evidence to suggest that gay men are any less proficient at it than straight men. And therein, in my opinion, lies the problem. We live in a culture that doesn‘t regard gay men as men.

avoiceformen · 2010-09-01T01:59:32+00:00

The two current hot spot examples of this are gay marriage and military service. Roughly speaking, the activism that seeks to include gay men in these realms is, in reality, placing them directly in the crosshairs of corrupt family courts, and on the battlefield, where they can join straight men in being used as the cannon fodder of choice for hegemonic corporatism.

I disagree. For a start, gay men are already in the (American) military, closeted, but by choice. I think war is horrific, but not everything the (American) military does is the result of 'hegemonic corporatism'. Gays want to be able to serve openly, just like everyone else. Whether war is wrong is a separate argument.

I also think that gay marriage might be the best thing that could happen to marriage right now. In a situation where both partners are the same gender, how can the court system be biased against one partner? Breaking down the nuclear family idea that men = providers and women = nurturers would go a long way to changing the bias in alimony and child support, if only because it forces gender-neutral laws to actually be applied gender-neutral. In a male gay marriage, who is screwed over by the child support laws?

It would seem sensible that since marriage, at least in western culture, is a religious institution, that men -all men- push for taking it out of the hands of government completely. Religious institutions would be able to marry whomever they please, which would ensure the rights of almost anyone to marry- and to suffer for it down the road.

Does not compute. Religious institutions are against gay marriage. How would making marriage solely religious ensure the rights of almost anyone to marry?

In war, the discrimination is against men, from the induction center to Flanders Field. Seeking inclusion in it may well be a human right, but it will ultimately be at the expense of the same. Such is often revealed when taking more than a cursory glance at complicated matters.

What about all the women out there who are fighting to deconstruct the idea that only men are tough enough for the military? Women have no choice in this matter - they don't "enjoy the militaries strenuous efforts to keep them out of harms way", they want to be able to recognised as capable soldiers, but they have no choice. It's no surprise to me that gay rights are aligned with feminism in these instances, since the idea that gays aren't "man enough" is a pretty pervasive one still.

JamminCrumpets · 2010-09-01T03:59:18+00:00

I agree with the author. Gays are generally feminists. They are no friend to MRA or the men's rights movement.

Title	The Problem with Gay Rights
Author	avoiceformen
Upvotes	0
Comments	26
Date	September 1, 2010 1:26 AM UTC (15 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/d7z8c/the_problem_with_gay_rights/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/the-problem-with-gay-rights.1047764 https://theredarchive.com/post/1047764

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