~ archived since 2018 ~

Writer has no compunction about calling a presumptively innocent man a 'rapist'

PierceHarlan

November 9, 2010

75 upvotes

/r/MensRights

http://falserapesociety.blogspot.com/2010/11/writer-has-no-compunction-about-calling.html

Download the post

Want to save the post for offline use on your device? Choose one of the download options below:

PDF TXT EPUB

Support the archive

Everything here was supposed to disappear. Banned subreddits, deleted communities, cancelled blogs — much of what is archived here survives nowhere else.

It stays free — no paywall, no account — for the next man who comes looking, the way it was free for you.

I pay for the servers, the storage and the bandwidth myself. If you want this record still standing in ten years, become one of the people who keeps it online.

Support the archive

Post Information

Title	Writer has no compunction about calling a presumptively innocent man a 'rapist'
Author	PierceHarlan
Upvotes	75
Comments	48
Date	November 9, 2010 2:18 PM UTC (15 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/e3gqw/writer_has_no_compunction_about_calling_a/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/writer-has-no-compunction-about-calling-a.1046096 https://theredarchive.com/post/1046096

Comments

[–][deleted] 15 points16 points17 points 15 years ago* (36 children) | Copy Link

[–]mynameisflorian 2 points3 points4 points 15 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points1 point 15 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

[–]mynameisflorian 0 points1 point2 points 15 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 15 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

[–]mynameisflorian 0 points1 point2 points 15 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points1 point 15 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[–]mynameisflorian 0 points1 point2 points 15 years ago* (4 children) | Copy Link

Oh? Then what POSSIBLE reason would there be for a verdict that says "We think he did it, but we just can't prove it?"

Again, I never proposed that. You said that, not me! Please quote me, not you.

If that's NOT what that verdict says, then what, precisely, DOES it say....and what logic makes you think the public won't assign whatever meaning they want to it anyway?

Like I said, it says of 3 things:

Accused is guilty
Insufficient evidence either way (a normal "not guilty", this is what "not guilty" means TODAY, less the "either way")
Accuser is guilty of making a false allegation

As to the second point, what's stopping people from doing that now? I don't see your point.

Like I said, there is absolutely NO reason for the third option EXCEPT to have a verdict that says "He did it, we just can't prove it"....

Uh, the third options says the ACCUSER is guilty of breaking the law by making a false accusation.

I think I'm either completely misunderstanding you, or you are completely misunderstanding me. Or, you're a troll...

EDIT: I got a second opinion. You are missing the point. Re-read my original post and stop nit-picking to try to be right. You misread. Admit it. It's not a big deal.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 15 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

Actually, you're right, I did misread it. But there's still this problem...

What it essentially does is combine two trials into one. Having three different levels that pit "he" against "she" in a courtroom cagematch (which you KNOW these will turn into lickety split) will not be a step forward by any stretch. And yes, it is quite likely it will still play out as "Well, if he REALLY didn't do it then how come he couldn't prove she lied?". Not to mention 'poor women' getting all sorts of 'help'....

Honestly, have you EVER seen men given the benefit of the doubt in these kinds of areas?

This isn't some kind of stubborn attempt to be right either...I admit, I didn't read closely enough and the details of my objection were based on that misreading. The eventual outcome of having three possible verdicts in the public eye would likely remain the same though, simply because that is how people think these days...

[–]mynameisflorian 1 point2 points3 points 15 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

I see where you're coming from and you may be right, but as it stands right now, a man needs to fight such an injustice twice. Hell, depending on how it goes he may have to prove his innocence twice. I would say (IMO) that my proposition, while not necessarily optimal, is definitely an improvement of the current system.

"Well, if he REALLY didn't do it then how come he couldn't prove she lied?"

Because it's made clear there are 3 options and that a guilty verdict requires some sort of actual evidence. It sucks that men can still be falsely accused of rape, but it's also sucks that women get raped and can't prove it either. Our justice system is based on proving beyond a reasonable doubt that the person is guilty of a crime, and that it is better to let a guilty person walk free than it is to imprison an innocent one...

Honestly, have you EVER seen men given the benefit of the doubt in these kinds of areas?

Honestly, yes. If you look at the numbers, either a lot of men are getting away with rape or there are a lot of false accusations (or both). There are an increasing number of cases where men are convicted on sloppy evidence, but it is still a minority. I'm not saying we don't need to fight against it, but, as far as I know, it has not become the norm. Spending lots of time on /r/mensrights exposes you to a lot of such cases, so it would be normal to see it as a more common problem than it is. Sometimes I need remind myself of that as well. Sometimes I think feminists and MRAs have a lot more in common than they realize :-D

[–][deleted]1 point 15 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Well, we're still not going to agree in this case. I can see those trials turning into a competition to see who can convict the other better...and the public will have even more leeway to assume shit that they don't know (ie, "he did it, they just can't prove it"). Not only that, but it will DEFINITELY cause women with marginal cases to not pursue them...and I have 2 daughters...so that won't fly.

I'd suggest that simple application of legal/constitutional standards in an even-handed way is more direct, and more effective.

Therefore, I'd say SEVERE punishment for misconduct by anyone in the process (from Judges to GAL's) is a better answer. Making the cop who investigates the cases PERSONALLY liable would also go a long way to ensuring thorough investigation...

So that's the route I would take.

As for this:

Sometimes I think feminists and MRAs have a lot more in common than they realize :-D

If you notice, MRAs are fighting for the same things Feminists SAY they are fighting for women for...

Not a single MRA 'platform plank' is removed all that far from typical '60s feminist rhetoric (in regards to equality, and the moral rightness of same)....definitely nowhere near as much as Feminists themselves are...

[–][deleted]1 point 15 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

I'd suggest that simple application of legal/constitutional standards in an even-handed way is more direct, and more effective.

So that's the route I would take.

As for this:

Sometimes I think feminists and MRAs have a lot more in common than they realize :-D

If you notice, MRAs are fighting for the same things Feminists SAY they are fighting for women for...

[–]ShakeyBobWillis 6 points7 points8 points 15 years ago (13 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 9 points10 points11 points 15 years ago* (7 children) | Copy Link

[–]ShakeyBobWillis 0 points1 point2 points 15 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

[–]Godspiral 2 points3 points4 points 15 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]ShakeyBobWillis 0 points1 point2 points 15 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]Godspiral 1 point2 points3 points 15 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]ShakeyBobWillis 0 points1 point2 points 15 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points1 point 15 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]ShakeyBobWillis 1 point2 points3 points 15 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 15 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]ShakeyBobWillis 0 points1 point2 points 15 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points1 point 15 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Rimacrob -1 points0 points1 point 15 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]ShakeyBobWillis -3 points-2 points-1 points 15 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 15 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

I totally agree with you that accused men should have anonymity up until guilty sentencing, I don't really know how you would argue against it.

However, I don't agree that every person who makes a "false" rape accusation should be charged. As someone previously pointed out, just because some rape cases have a verdict of "not guilty", it doesn't mean the alleged victim necessarily made anything up. Sometimes there is simply not enough evidence to convict, so it comes down to word-against-word, which could mean someone might not convicted who should be.

We can't then charge the victim. Potentially, their rapist has just been let off the hook, and now they are being sentenced for telling the truth. If it is clear that the rape has been made up , then of course, charge them; they are perverting the course of justice.

Unfortunately, rape cases are rarely that straight-forward, which is one of the reasons why cases of people being charged for false rape claims are quite uncommon.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 15 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]nanomagnetic 0 points1 point2 points 15 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]epukinsk 0 points1 point2 points 15 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points1 point 15 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

In the eyes of modern feminists and allot of modern society if a man is convicted of rape in a court he's a rapist, if he's found not guilty he's a rapist who got away with it... if he isn't even charged just accused he is a rapist and the system should be changed.

This is not strictly true. The feminist point of view is that if a woman claims rape, one should believe she has been raped unless there is evidence otherwise. This is not the same as saying that if a woman claims rape, one should believe that the alleged rapist is guilty. Subtle difference, I know.

No doubt some feminists believe the latter as well, but it's not necessarily a mainstream feminist position, unlike the former.

False rape convictions are common - many men have gone to prison for rapes they did not commit, and have been exonerated recently based on DNA evidence. In these cases, the woman was raped, but they convicted the wrong guy, which is more a flaw of the justice system than of feminism.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points6 points 15 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Godspiral 1 point2 points3 points 15 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[+]NiceIce 15 years ago [recovered] (2 children) | Copy Link

In the eyes of modern feminists and allot of modern society

I don't think you understand what the word 'allot' means:

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/allot

I think what you mean is 'a lot' - two words.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 15 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]NiceIce1 point 15 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Solkre 0 points1 point2 points 15 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]yoordoengitrong 8 points9 points10 points 15 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]neuroticmonkey 2 points3 points4 points 15 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]nanomagnetic 2 points3 points4 points 15 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]Godspiral 2 points3 points4 points 15 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 15 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]robertskmiles 0 points1 point2 points 15 years ago* (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]Godspiral 1 point2 points3 points 15 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]robertskmiles 0 points1 point2 points 15 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]Godspiral 3 points4 points5 points 15 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 15 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link