When rape charges are dropped, it's not appropriate to call the accuser 'the victim'

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But in some alleged rape cases, it doesn't mean that they are a victim either. You have to realize that we are dealing with the fact that we are talking specifically about accusations for a crime that has a substantial potential for ruining the accused person's life, whether they are found guilty or not.

We have established here that the stigma of being accused of rape will follow and harm the reputation and life of a man so accused, regardless of whether he is found guilty, not guilty, or innocent. The feminist lobby is invested in the denial of this fact out of an illogical fear that this will somehow diminish the investigation and prosecution of genuine rape cases. This viewpoint is illogical simply because the basic mandate of law enforcement is to investigate the facts surrounding any accusation of a crime; regardless of its validity.

Regarding the crime of rape there are three obvious states that the accuser may occupy; alleged victim who knows/can identify their alleged attacker, alleged victim who cannot identify their alleged attacker, and alleged non-victim who has an ulterior motive in making a false accusation. If law enforcement factors in the idea that the alleged victim may or may not have a motive in making a false declaration of being a victim of a crime, such a factoring will not deter or harm their investigation.

Then there is the other feminist fear that "genuine victims" will be afraid of coming forward to make accusations out of fear of being accused/prosecuted of making a false accusation. Most feminist lobbyists patently refuse to recognize that nobody is interested in prosecuting alleged victims who are genuinely mistaken in their accusations/descriptions. Logically, the feminist lobby cannot justify this reasoning in the light of false accusers like Biurny Peguro Gonzalez, Heidi Jones, Crystal Mangum, or Wanetta Gibson; each who made a false rape accusation/claim as a means to escape the consequences of personal responsibility. You cannot in any stretch of the imagination, call these four women "victims."

[–]oneiorosgrip 1 point2 points3 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[+]gazork_chumble_spuzz -14 points-13 points-12 points 12 years ago (27 children) | Copy Link

[–]tyciol 1 point2 points3 points 12 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

The majorty of people who accuse someone of rape have actually been raped

source?

The fact that rape charges are dismissed doesn't always mean that the accused was innocent, too

Legally it does, though philosophically, no, it doesn't. You're arguing a straw man here though: nobody is saying the thing you are disputing in this thread. Or, correct me with a URL if I missed it.

the terminology used in these cases will always be problematic because until there is undeniable evidence that a rape happened you cannot know for sure that the accuser was raped or that the accused did it, so there will always be people for whom the terminology is inaccurate.

Incorrect, "accuser"/"accused" or "plaintiff"/"defendent" or "alleged victim"/"alleged rapist" will ALWAYS be correct regardless of what the outcome of the case is.

[–]gazork_chumble_spuzz 1 point2 points3 points 12 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

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[–]gazork_chumble_spuzz 1 point2 points3 points 12 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

Why?

Because while there haven't been a huge number of studies done on this issue, the ones that have been carried out show that false reports are a minority of all rape reports. It happens, but not as often as real rapes/reports.

I base it on lying being easier than raping, and it being easier for women to get away with lying than it is for men to get away with raping.

So instead of basing it on facts, you're basing it on your own ideas and feelings/opinions. That's not how this works. Do you have any idea how few reported rapes result in a conviction in the USA?? Read this - it sounds like you need to be acquainted with the facts. It is, in fact, easy for rapists to get away with rape, because not only do many victims not report the crime, but even when they do their rapists almost never wind up in jail for their crime.

[–]tyciol1 point 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

the ones that have been carried out show that false reports are a minority of all rape reports

What the studies carried out "show" are irrelevant if we don't trust the study. Especially when the justice system easily results in the conviction of innocent men and reporting these as 'real' rapes. The studies probably also exclude reports that were taken to the public and not the police.

It happens, but not as often as real rapes/reports.

Whatever your studies conclude I'm doubtful it has any convincing evidence of that.

instead of basing it on facts, you're basing it on your own ideas and feelings/opinions

No facts exist here. Your studies are not facts. The ease of saying a sentence ("he raped me") being easier than carrying out a rape is fucking OBVIOUS. You make it sound like this is just a flavour of ice cream here. We're talking about the difference in difficulty of walking your dog and deadlifting a bear.

Do you have any idea how few reported rapes result in a conviction in the USA?

No, because to know that, I would need to know which reports are of actual rapes and which are of false reports.

Being that you would probably be counting potentially false accusations as 'rapes that didn't result in a conviction' you have poisoned the well.

Things we can actually know are how many rape accusations result in rape convictions. What we can't actually know is how many of either (successful or failed convictions) were of actual or fictional rapes.

Read this - it sounds like you need to be acquainted with the facts.

I think you need to be aquainted with critical thinking here and how to interpret data. Your choice of language, how you describe things, shows you gravitate too closely to absolutes.

not only do many victims not report the crime, but even when they do their rapists almost never wind up in jail for their crime

That is simply a myth. It may indeed be a true myth, or it may be false.

The problem with statements along these lines include:

1) if an alleged rapist does not wind up in jail, why is this being included as a percentage of victims when they should only be classed as alleged victims?

2) if an alleged victim does not report the crime, how do we know a crime has occurred if we haven't processed the evidence?

What I can believe, a more realistic phrasing of what you are twisting into a false presentation of truth, is that surveys have been taken where people have claimed to be raped, and that these numbers are being compared to the results of actual trials.

Your surveys are not convincing evidence.

[–]gazork_chumble_spuzz1 point 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

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I'm sad you're getting downvotes for this completely accurate assessment. While completely false accusations do happen, there is no evidence suggesting they are anywhere close to a majority of cases.

We could use 'alleged victim' but in order for a case to reach court hard evidence must have been found of a crime. Its more a question of who's guilty, the assumption it likely didn't happen at all seems prejudicial. Dropping the word victim following an acquittal is even worse. An acquittal doesn't determine no crime took place, that's simply inaccurate. It just determines that the accused was found innocent.

It would be inappropriate to call the defendant 'the rapist' as it has been determined in a court of law that he wasn't, but the other side of that coin is not tossing out the label 'victim'. An acquittal does not prove that a crime never occurred and the victim is not one at all. It simply acquits the accused. Depending on the specific case, it might not even mean the actual innocence of the accused - but that's a whole separate can of worms.

As you point out there are many variations on the truth of the scenario - any blanket term you use will be inaccurate in some cases

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While completely false accusations do happen, there is no evidence suggesting they are anywhere close to a majority of cases.

Is there evidence to suggest that the majority of accusations are true?

I'm inclined to think the opposite because lying is easier than raping and women are favoured over men, therefore they have more pull to exploit.

It would be inappropriate to call the defendant 'the rapist' as it has been determined in a court of law that he wasn't, but the other side of that coin is not tossing out the label 'victim'.

That is NOT the other side of the coin. Refusing to call the accuser "liar" is the other side of not calling the accused "rapist".

Calling the accuser a "victim" would be the other side of the coin of calling the accused "innocent man" or "falsely accused".

What a load of shit, learn to language.

An acquittal does not prove that a crime never occurred and the victim is not one at all.

By "the victim" I assume you mean someone who for the purpose of the argument, we are assuming to have been raped? Heck, a man being convicted as a rapist doesn't "prove" he is a rapist either, does it? What's your point?

any blanket term you use will be inaccurate in some cases

Only for those who lack knowledge of fucking terms, you ignorant coffee cup. In what sittuations would "accuser" and "defendant" and the like be inaccurate?

"alleged victim" is always accurate if someone alleges they themselves (or someone else) is a victim. That's what it means.

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[–]kragshot 5 points6 points7 points 12 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

That is just the result of the conditioning of the concept and language surrounding the crime. While nobody is saying that rape is not a horrible crime; there have been so many people invested in the aggrandizment of the crime that it has nearly become heretical to question anyone who claims that they are a victim of the crime or to consider that anyone so accused is actually not guilty of it.

However, we have to remember one thing about the crime of rape; of all the crimes that we have in our society, rape is one of the few that by its nature is mostly based upon "hearsay." 95-98% of all alleged rapes have no witnesses to the actual crime. Innocence or guilt is nearly based upon the word of the accuser vs the word of the accused. DNA evidence has only been admissible in US courts since the early 80s. The Innocence Project is freeing men jailed for rape constantly because they are forcing jurisdictions to accept DNA evidence showing that men convicted for alleged rapes actually did not commit the crime.

Look at the number of stories that are coming out where men accused of rape are being exonerated when it is discovered that the accuser has lied about the crime being committed. The law of averages can easily support that for each case of this nature which is uncovered, there has to be at least one other that has not been revealed and more likely it is more than one case that is not revealed for every one that is discovered.

Like any other crime; the crime of rape has to be put under a magnifying glass and critically examined. History has shown that a rape accusation can ignite a violent fanaticism that can easily result in the loss of innocent life (Rosewood FL, Tulsa OK). While we should investigate any and all claims with vigor and zeal, we need to take it off of the pedestal that it has been placed upon and treat it with the objectivity that is used for any other crime.

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It depends on the specifics of the case. If a woman says "I was raped at 11pm in central park on Monday 10th July, I don't know who it was but they were short and Asian looking", and then the police pick up Mr Chang who they think is guilty but it turns out that he is innocent, then of course the woman doesn't have guilty intent and shouldn't be prosecuted for making the rape allegation, she was probably telling the truth, she was raped but by someone else.

However if a woman specifically says "Mr Jones raped me, he came to my house and raped me after I begged him to stop", and then it turns out that Mr Jones was on a flight to China when that was supposed to have happened, then clearly the woman is flat out lying and has guilty intent, and it would be very easy to prosecute her if the legal system so wished.

Whilst I don't want to put people off making legitimate rape allegations, there does need to be some kind of mandatory punishment for blatantly false accusations which involves imprisonment and a fine equal to how much the falsely accused man or woman, has lost financially due to the smear and slander of being accused of rape.

[–]xzxzzx 15 points16 points17 points 12 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

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[–]oneiorosgrip 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I know a false accusation victim whose accuser (his ex-wife) named him specifically, and named the date, time and place specifically. When the accuser was caught in her lie (because he had physical and witness evidence of his actual whereabouts,) she went on a time-and-place fishing expedition, repeatedly changing her story to try to catch him without an alibi. The detective handling the case brought the guy back in for questioning every time the accuser changed her story. The detective also called the business the accuser claimed was the victim's employer, and told the owner that he'd been accused of rape. (I've since learned that it is common practice in that precinct when there is a rape accusation against a man - they call and inform the accused's employer of the accusation.) Had he actually been employed there, he'd have been fired.

The accuser had the support of a local domestic violence victim's advocacy group. She had a victim's advocate with her each time she went in to talk to the detective. Because that agency was involved, she was never charged with anything, even though she filed a false police report, lied to a police officer during an investigation, and wasted a lot of police time and taxpayer dollars on a false investigation.

In addition, she brought other false charges against him, putting him through a long-term ordeal during which she filed multiple false police reports, repeatedly lied to police officers during investigation, obtained frivolous restraining orders, brought frivolous cases against him, committed perjury, and physically and electronically stalked his witnesses.

No criminal charges were ever brought against her for any of her legal violations. Of the witnesses she stalked, three who lived in the same household took legal action against her. Two were successful, only because she tripped up in court and admitted knowing something that she couldn't have known if she hadn't been guilty, and because that admission involved action taken using a weapon... so the judge had to award the order. The judge denied the third order because the stalking victim was male, and in court the judge stated his belief that being male, that victim wasn't in any danger.

Police later refused to enforce the order, giving as their reason "we can't because this is a domestic case and she has (name of DV victim's advocacy group) helping her."

She literally became untouchable after contracting that agency - she could lie, throw temper tantrums in court, and even stalk people and commit acts of violence against animals, and nobody in authority would do anything about it.

After watching that case unfold, I honestly think that a false accuser who pursues a case into the courtroom knowing that she's lying - if it can be proved she has done so - should face the same penalties that would be faced by her accuser: Mandatory jail time, mental health treatment that starts with being made to admit what she's done and reconcile herself with it and continues with a treatment regimen designed to teach her not to lie, probation following her release, and being placed on a false accuser registry, a list which should be admissible in future court cases as part of her criminal record.

[–]tyciol -2 points-1 points0 points 12 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

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[–]kragshot 25 points26 points27 points 12 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

Speaking as somebody who has lived that nightmare; nothing happens to the accuser. In my particular case, I was falsely accused by a white woman who was trying to cover up an extra-marital affair with an African American man. The woman was engaged in a tryst with the other man and neighbors saw the man leaving the truck where it had happened. So, rather than owning up to her infidelity, she claimed that she was raped by a black man in her truck. The town where it happened is almost exclusively white, so the presence of a black man there would naturally stand out.

I was singled out because I regularly went to the town to purchase comic books (the town had the only specialty shop in a 50 mile radius of where I lived), and I was picked up by the local police. I was questioned and then placed in a lineup and she picked me out.

However, when the rape "allegedly" happened, I was four towns away being ticketed by a state trooper for speeding. The ticket placed me away and out of the possible time frame of the alleged crime. Now here's the cincher; the prosecution and judge did not want to accept the trooper's testimony or the ticket as evidence placing me away from the crime scene. My lawyer had to force a change of venue for the trial which ultimately resulted in my being found "not guilty" for the crime. Subsequently, I had to go back to court in order to force the jurisdiction to grant me a "declaration of innocence" as the evidence was sufficient to prove my not having committed the crime, but they did not want to declare me innocent, but wanted to maintain the "not guilty" judgment on my record.

After the trial, the woman finally came forward and admitted to the lie and the affair. I tried three times to sue the woman for libel, slander, and defamation of character. Each time I brought the case up, nobody would place it on a docket. Finally, a person in the county clerk's office pulled me aside and told me in no uncertain terms that I should just drop the whole thing and be glad that I did not end up in prison and if I continued pissing off people about it, that I might end up in prison for something else.

As for the woman; she divorced her husband, got the house, his truck, and moved the black man she was having the affair with into the house. She's living fat off of alimony and selling Mary Kay cosmetics, while I ultimately had to leave my home and family in order to start over. I lost my jobs ("We can't afford the negative publicity, so we've decided that it's best if we release you...without prejudice of course...."), most of my friends ("Dude, it's probably best if we don't hang out anymore...you understand, right?"), as well as a girlfriend ("Uh...I...I just...can't...be with you...anymore...don't contact me anymore...."). My family caught all kinds of crap from other people and the damned local feminists pretty much branded me "a rapist who got away with it" even after she admitted that the whole thing was a lie ("She couldn't have made up the whole thing. He had to have had the potential for it; it couldn't have came out of nowhere...." That was an actual quote from a feminist who was interviewed regarding the news that she made up the whole case.)

TL;DR

I was falsely accused of rape but because I ultimately was found innocent of the crime, the courts considered it a case of "no harm, no foul" and nothing was done to the woman who subsequently admitted to the lie." In cases like mine, the courts have no interest in prosecuting a woman who lies about rape.

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[–]kragshot 10 points11 points12 points 12 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

I survived all of that because of family who believed in me and loved me...that and an awesome therapist. They helped me maintain who I was and am. My philosophy about "cool" still stands despite that tragedy. The only saving grace in all of that is that it happened in the early 80s and before the advent of the internet, so I was able to get away and start fresh. But even when I do go home to visit my family, they are the only people I see. I do not speak to anyone else.

I had an ex-friend approach me about two years ago. He was mouthing some platitudes about how I should understand what was going on and that it wasn't his fault that he had to hang me out in the wind when all of that went down. I looked at him in silence for about a minute and then said "Yeah, whatever." and then walked away. I can't count the number of Facebook friend requests that I have marked "No and do not ever ask me about this person again."

So, yeah...I'm still angry and bitter about the whole thing. But I think I do a good job about not letting it control or define my life.

I am not afraid of women due to what happened to me (and again, because of therapy), but despite my professional persona (I'm a club DJ), I tend to be very guarded around women that I don't know. I've been married now for 19 years and my wife is very comforting and understanding of my situation. I don't have nearly as many female friends as I did before the incident and those who I am friends with now have been vetted under very tight scrutiny.

Don't believe anyone who says that a false accusation doesn't harm you. They genuinely don't know what they are talking about and many cannot imagine what such a thing costs you.

[–]tyciol 2 points3 points4 points 12 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

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They didn't apologize when the newspaper announced that she lied about the whole thing and pretty much redeemed me. In fact, despite that happening, I was still looked at as "a rapist who got away with it" (thanks to the local feminists). I would have been more than happy if folks said "Hey, it was just a big misunderstanding and can we just go back to the way things were?" But I didn't even get that. They just kept on avoiding me and pretending that I didn't exist. So, yeah...about that...no.

If they were my real friends, then they should have known who I was and knew that I was and am incapable of such a thing. There were four friends who stood by me during that whole thing and they caught shit for doing it by those same people who I am ignoring on social media.

So...yeah...about those people...fuck 'em.

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Actually, 9/11 kinda was an inside job - a conspiracy of errors - but not the ones people think.

Read this book.

Follow the conclusion of that book (WWII never would have happened, or at least not the way it did happen, if Woodrow Wilson hadn't affected the way WWI ended) and then think about the changes that took place in the Middle East as an effect of WWII. Imagine what would change if Wilson had not chosen to involve the U.S. in WWI: No decisive victory in the war. No treaty of Versailles.

No 14 points, no punishment for Germany... no reparations payments.

Therefore no political platform for Hitler.

No Nazi regime. No Holocaust. No resurgence of Zionism, because there would have been no reason to fear being everywhere else.

No WWII, and therefore no WWII victory. No restructuring of nations because of the war. No displaced factions. It is even possible that other conflicts which arose between nations which weren't directly involved in the war may not have occurred. Regardless, had the U.S. maintained a policy of uninvolvement, they'd have had no reason to pick a fight with us. Instead of being the great satan, we probably could have been the sleeping dog they'd rather let lie.

That is not to say that 9/11 was deserved. It's simply to say that it was not the strike out of the blue that everyone thinks it was, and our own governing body is not innocent.

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[–]oneiorosgrip 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]cuteman -1 points0 points1 point 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Successful prosecution relies on a very stringent burden of proof. If there is any form of doubt that the complaintant might have made a "mistake" as opposed to an outright fabrication it could prove very difficult to obtain a conviction.

Some people say sexual assault investigations rarely result in a conviction, but a conviction of what you might consider an "obvious" false accusation is even less common.

This is related to the issue of statistics and "how often" a complaint is proven false as such things are often related to conviction rates. A conviction rate for false accusations pertaining to sexual assault most likely IS similar to the rate of false accusations pertaining to other forms of fraud, but that does not mean it happens in the real world at the same rates of other forms of fraud. I've often heard claims of 4-8% of cases are fraudulent, but if your analysis is based on conviction rates then someone attempting to do research of such cases might appreciate the challenges in achieving a conviction in prosecuting a false sexual assault accusation as you begin to see the flaws in the framing of such statistics.

So while I don't disagree many bonafide rapists dodge convictions because of burden of proof thresholds, so too do an even higher percentage of false accusers because of those thresholds.

[–][deleted] 7 points8 points9 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Criminal charges can be dropped for a litany of reasons. A lack of evidence (he said/she said), the victim in the incident does not want to follow through with prosecution and re-live the experience, or a full court docket where case A has a much better chance as going through as case B.

In police reports I've read they list the individual affected by the crime as the victim. On domestic assault cases I double arrest can occur where there they're listed as a victim and suspect.

Though agree if the suspect is the victim of a false report the status of the suspect, now victim, should be changed in the original report and with the prosecuting agency. . This is a silly circle jerk article that fails to see the gray in the world. It reminds me of the Blaze.com article about Bill Bye and him being a jerk for stating creationism is silly.

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When rape charges are dropped, it's not appropriate to call the accuser 'the victim'

It is pretty inhuman to suggest someone is a rapist based on an accusation.

I'm confused at how you think those two things go together.

When rape charges are dropped, it's not appropriate to call the accuser 'the victim'

You can most certainly be a victim of a crime and not yet have anyone charged with it, or arrested, or tried and sentenced. Especially with a crime like rape, that is so hard to prove, it's pretty inhuman to tell someone that since we can't arrest anyone, it must not have really happened.

This is excatly what the topic of this thread is talking about. It's like being mad when someone gets murdered and calling them a victim. We know they are a victim, they are dead.

In addition, even in situations such as yesterday's shooting in DC, the gunman was still refered to as the "alleged gunman" by the news, despite being shot dead with four weapons while exchanging gunfire with police.

[–]PierceHarlan[S] 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

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[–]cuteman 1 point2 points3 points 12 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

What will really cook your noodle is that BOTH concepts get used against men, "many rapists go free [because they do not receive a conviction]" and "false accusations are very rare [because it is exceedingly difficult to obtain a conviction in such a case and prosecutors have limited political will to do so]."

In the case of people accused who go free because a conviction cannot be obtained, many people cry injustice (and is most likely the reason for Obama's 'Dear Collegue' Title IX letter). Whereas the same exact evidentiary or even additional political challenges arise in prosecuting an "obvious" false accusation, but that is conveniently ignored when citing fradulent rape accusations as they pertain to other forms of fraud as rare.

Then you take it a step further of recent methodology of asking men "Have you ever had sex with a woman who had even one alcoholic drink" or "have you ever asked your significant other for sex even though they did not want to" and then concluding that a large percentage of men are rapists outside of statistics as they pertain to convictions or legal investigations. It is very intellectually dishonest to comingle the two as if leading questionaires are statistically consistent with something like the FBI's reports on crime.

[–]amishbreakfast 1 point2 points3 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Then you take it a step further of recent methodology of asking men "Have you ever had sex with a woman who had even one alcoholic drink"

I just heard this one (I think it was on NPR) a day or two ago. According to the woman they had on, 10% of men surveyed said they raped a woman at least once. She didn't say much about what the actual questions were but she did say that none of the questions directly asked them "Have you raped?"

To explain this 10% of men are rapists number, the guest had a theory: College/highschool athletes feel entitled to fuck whoever they want cus they're such big shots. Here's the weird thing. Her study did not conclude that athletes weren't overly represented as rapists. It struck me as an oddly fucking abrupt segue and totally irrelevant. It was more than my brain could handle before my first cup of coffee.

tl;dr 10% of men rape cus sports.

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Agreed, one does not absolutely indicate the other; one does imply the other. You're being a pseudo-intellectual twit. To say not-guilty does not imply the other as lying you are actually giving the feminist the very room they need to classify all dismissed rape accusations, even those dismissed in court, as potentially real rape instances gone ignored. You must realize the average person is only somewhat rational, but still largely deals in absolutes. It's is perfectly rational to apply this thinking as general rule. These are two separate things.

A more rational mind can rise above absolutist notions and deal in fractional certainty, or probabilities of truth. I give a far higher degree of certainty to the not-guilty verdict being an indication of lying, because, in fact that is what the research shows in the general case.

The fallacy here is subtle. You are speaking of one instance, wherein this particular case we should not assume not-guilty indicates lying, ABSOLUTELY. However, you then jump to the generalization and say that we should not assume the not guilty verdict means the accuser was lying, IN GENERAL.

Yes, we should assume this, unless there is evidence to the contrary it is exactly what you should assume to the high degree, and allow a far more marginal degree of certainty for the notion of the allegation was not false, esp. after having been through the pro-female slanted court systems... Each unlikelihood makes the whole orders of magnitude more unlikely.

Additionally, watch that borderline "guilty by association" fallacy you've got in comparing a rational assumption to the irrational bias of a supposed ideological enemy, thereby discouraging the notion because it's like that of the feminist.

First off: Holding degrees of certainty supported by proportional probability given evidence (or given investigation and lack of substantiating evidence) is nothing like the feminst ideology which is built upon confirmation bias and untested hypotheses.

Finally: You need to give more reason than "it's like a feminist would think" for a reason; Otherwise, you are being like the feminist -- Not supplying any evidence for the belief and going on untested hypotheses, making large degrees of uncertainty out of a far more minimal degree, and shaming others for stating the less sophisticated, but most probably correct, assumption. Do not make the mistake in thinking that an assumption can not be challenged later, or that minds can not be changed in general.

Let's not go the route of the unscientific, I would say.

To be clear: "We should not assume that a not guilty verdict means the accuser was lying." Yes, we should. Otherwise we should re-try the accused, fool.

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Title	When rape charges are dropped, it's not appropriate to call the accuser 'the victim'
Author	PierceHarlan
Upvotes	1211
Comments	209
Date	September 17, 2013 11:43 AM UTC (12 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/1mkeku/when_rape_charges_are_dropped_its_not_appropriate/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/when-rape-charges-are-dropped-its-not-appropriate.1163643 https://theredarchive.com/post/1163643

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