Any tips/resources for keeping frame in in a separation/custody dispute

wimmyjales · 2015-09-12T17:23:23+00:00

Been in a custody thing with my wife for quite a while. The red pill has been invaluable. First thing's first, she's going to try to get you on your heels when you talk to her. She will say you were abusive, manipulative, that you made her hate herself, etc. Anything to try and get you to internalize that you have done wrong, or get you so filled with defensive rage that you lose your composure. With normal guys, this works like a charm. "I can't believe she would say these things, it's like she changed overnight!" These men mount the most brutal defense they can muster, unaware that they don't have a pussy pass. In the eyes of others they will look conniving and vindictive, whereas the female with just be looking out for the best interests of her children.

But you're not one of these men now. You know better, because you are on the pill that cures naivety. Do not defend yourself to her. At all. Don't admit to anything, don't "agree and amplify", just keep sidestepping and refusing to discuss your relationship. Let her know that the extent of your relationship moving forward will be strictly business regarding the day to day life of your kids. Stress that you want to be cooperative, but that you will not be discussing anything from your time with her under any circumstances. You don't care what she does with her time, who she is with, how fast she moved on, how she hurt you or your kids in the past, anything to do with her that doesn't currently affect your girls. There is plenty of advice aside from frame regarding the actual divorce, but only listen to your lawyer for that. But as far as how to act in communicating with your wife, HARD NEXT.

That said, I'm sure it's painful and that you miss the fantasy of what you pretended your wife was. You'll just have to deal man. Above all else do not indicate in the least that you miss her. I found this sub soon after it was formed, around the time I was separated. I beta-ed it up hard in the early separation, and almost had a total loss in the divorce. Voluntarily, no less. But after learning about frame and turning it around, in the next few weeks I'm about to sign a joint custody agreement, no child support, no alimony. The perfect divorce. She went from crazy and out of control in the beginning to completely amicable and in some instances even downright obedient. Also, she's been swinging from my nutsack every time we meet up, batting her eyes and blushing, reportedly much to the chagrin of her ultrabeta boyfriend. But he has nothing to worry about. In my world, next means next. This can work out well for you, dude. Just keep reading and trust in the good advice. Do it for your kids.

MattyAnon · 2015-09-12T16:06:25+00:00

I suspect I will get primary custody as my wife has been insane

Bear in mind that your wife saying "he is violent" will carry more weight than your ability to prove her being a violent drug using whore. Her lawyers will coach her to say the things that will get her custody. Expect it. Don't get cross, this will only prove her case.

You're not talking about keeping frame (I suspect you lost that with your wife years ago, although she sounds awful too). You're talking about staying sane. Gym and exercise is good, but also find good male friends. Open up to people a bit and invite them to do the same. You'll find other guys in a similar boat. But mostly it's down to you handling this shit by yourself (noone likes a guy who whines, no matter how justified).

Good luck.

Royalartist · 2015-09-12T15:29:24+00:00

Spend time with your girls. You are their rock. They are your source of strength. Work for them and make it show.

projectself · 2015-09-12T22:57:49+00:00

Stop approaching women right now. That comes later.

What your lawyer thinks of your ex means nothing. What police tell you off the record means nothing.

Currently, she will spin this as you kidnapped your children, and are keeping them in a hotel. You are at war, and you need to keep that thought in your mind at all times.

As for tips or resources, first - do not contact her again. Do not see her, and especially do not see her in a setting where it is just you and her. Do not fuck her. Hard next.

Setup an account on something like our family wizard - a site that allows you to communicate with her through a 3rd party and have documentation about what occurs. She will have to setup her side, and pay for it. Do not do it for her, let her fail that on her own. It will be useful in the future.

Stop talking on forums, assume anything you say on the internet is directly sent to her and her lawyer.

Stick with the gym, do things for yourself. Get your shoes shined, have your vehicle detailed, buy a new shirt or new socks or something once a week. Eat right, feed the kids all meals every day, get good sleep. This is a behavior exercise to make you learn to make your needs important. It re-wires your brain and you must do this.

As for your kiddos, spend a lot of time with them. Talk to them, avoid talking to them about the divorce proceedings. Do not bad mouth your ex... they have their own eyes. Show them with actions what you are made of, and let them see with their own eyes what she is made of. They do notice.

billcosbyeatsbabies · 2015-09-12T18:51:32+00:00

When you're in court, keep your body language as honest and open as possible. Never touch your nose or conduct hand-to-head contact, as this indicates dishonesty. Don't raise your voice, at all. Remain polite, kind and gentle at all times. She will likely lose her cool, thus rendering you as the visibly competent one in the situation. If the judge is a man, say sir, if its a woman, say ma'am. If you were ever in cadets, you know how to address authority. Use these tactics to your advantage. Your frame should be a man with nothing to hide, willing to submit anything to the court in order to protect your children. Appear intelligent, yet not overly so. Wear glasses. If she tries to say you were violent, studies show that glasses make people seem less violent in court. Also, try to schedule the court date early in the morning or right after lunch. The judge/jury will have eaten at those times, therefore they make better decisions. Also, there is a sort of "critical thinking fatigue" that occurs when people must make important decisions all day (like the judge). They make the best decisions earlier in the day, and as the day goes on, their proper decision-making abilities are weaker. Talk 30% faster, but calm and as collected as possible. Talking a little faster makes people believe what you are saying is true. Just practice your frame over and over and over again. Think of yourself as a man fighting a beast with the power of kind assertiveness, rather than brute force.

yomo86 · 2015-09-13T18:07:40+00:00

As someone who clerked for judges in all departments and is a lawyer now. Stay fucking calm. I mean - even the judges including the ones who are pretty RP know that the game is riged against you. So take it like a man accept the fight.

Remember BP terminology ie in the custody hearing: the well being of the kids count, you don't actually want this proceeding, no hard feelings, it's no ones fault. The whole shabang. The law is not in question here. It's the mind of the judge. The law is in family court just there for having a pretence for a biased decision.
Let the lawyer talk. Even if you wish to - when you don't need to talk, don't talk at all. Hearing a lawyer talking, as a judge, is like hearing a professional talking. Hearing the ex talking is, even if it's objective, never of beneficial.
In contrast to let's say criminal or normal civil law cases the equation to win this battle is feelz>reelz meaning the supposed feelz of the kids outweight everything else. Kids are the ultimate leverage.

Instead of arguing she is insane hence you are the more fit parent create the mental picture of the outcome of said behaviour and proof it WITH insanity. Describe covertly you want a functioning family but it's not going to happen with this women.

BE CALM. Not even crying. A pussy whiped man never gets custody, an over emotional mother does.
Like Mike Tyson expect to get hit. Imagine situtions in your mind knocking you down in this fight. Live those imaginations. A man who endured and experienced war, is not afraid of war.

[deleted] · 2015-09-12T17:47:04+00:00

[permanently deleted]

holytrpbatman · 2015-09-12T17:27:28+00:00

As soon as the conversation with her starts to get you angry, catch yourself, and end the conversation immediately, without showing anger (or any emotion whatsoever). No reasoning, no explanation, just "Goodbye, I'll speak with you later."

Then go for a walk. Or lift. Or walk to the gym and lift.

As others have indicated she will exert great energy trying to get you to follow her conversational direction (fall into her frame). As soon as you do it will turn into a rehash of your entire previous relationship, where everything she thinks you did wrong will become the focus.

GuitarHero07 · 2015-09-12T16:03:00+00:00

In addition to lifting and reading, I would also suggest taking up mindfulness meditation. There are many guides online that can describe the techniques better than I can. The gist of it is that you sit upright in a comfortable position and focus on your breathing. When thoughts come to mind, acknowledge them but then return your focus to your breathing.

This will greatly help to relieve your anxiety and also take your mind off of troubling things. It is far easier to hold frame when your mind is clear.

stonepimpletilists · 2015-09-12T18:24:12+00:00

Any time you think about bursting out... Think about what it does to help.

Most outbursts are stopped dead when you think about possible outcomes. No one will give a child to an angry man, unless it's liam neilson

telefatstrat · 2015-09-14T18:41:08+00:00

You need to get the book "Divorce Poison" which describes how best to defend yourself when the other parent is PAS-ing (Parental alienation syndrome) your kids against you. It's especially helpful when your kids are younger.

snusaholic · 2015-09-12T16:17:24+00:00

This isn't advice for the process of divorce, because I'm not a lawyer and have never been married (there is a post by a lawyer in this sub right now speaking about marriage, I'd speak to him with a pm).

I'm here to offer my opinion regarding your kids post divorce. The only thing you can do is be the best father you can be and be their rock. I'd suggest you just be their father and never let them see you sweat and never speak ill of the succubus you made the mistake of marrying to them. If you can actually get custody you're a lucky man, it's extremely rare for a man to "win" this kind of scenario, count your blessings, raise your kids right and never feel like you have to just marry another broad to do right for your daughters. A single father with a stable financial situation will bring far more for your kids than some woman you've just met and promised half of your assests to.

Assassin1476 · 2015-09-12T18:36:34+00:00

For women, they will only absolutely leave you if you either seem like you can't live without them or will be completely crushed physically and mentally. What you should really do is remain as stoic and taciturn as possible. The relationship between you and her is dead in the water and the only thing that matters is your children. When you look and act like you could give absolutely zero fucks about your ex-wife, as if her life is completely worthless to you and that any thing you had between you and her meant nothing, that shit will eat her up the most. Just like any relationship having pinpoint frame is absolutely necessary because this will cause her hamster to take off in a fighter jet.

Especially when you also seem 130% happier without this bitch in your life and you would rather go through a nasty divorce and all this bullshit oppose to living, dealing, talking, sleeping and existing with her. Keep everything short, sweet and simple and if its not about your children or any type of buisnesw, don't talk to the bitch or do anything with her. My father went through the same thing with my mother for a long time but as a red pill truth, not giving a single fuck and success is absolutely the best revenge.

doubleplustwo · 2015-09-12T20:24:10+00:00

Am in similar boat. Holding frame is key. Perhaps the most critical thing you can do. Take it as your greatest challenge, one where all other challenges pale. I wish you the best of luck. Your girls need to know their father is their rock. Do not ever lose your shit. Not ever. Cheers, mate.

juliusstreicher · 2015-09-12T21:37:47+00:00

If you must communicate with her, never, never ever promise her anything 'just to get it over with'. Any promises that you make will be considered binding, if you have a female judge.

Have a prenup in your favor? The judge will fuck you over.

Said that you will pay X just to get her to shut the fuck up and get the kids for the weekend? The judge will consider that binding.

If she gets a restraining order against you, get your lawyer and get it nullified/overturned/wtf. You will not be able to buy a gun wherever an FFL is required if you have a restraining order against you.

I see no reason ever to speak to her in person, now. You have the kids. Use email or your attorney. Let her know this by email and/or recorded telephone conversation. If you run into her at court, just smile and have your phone on 'audio record' or video record it, and save it to your computer. Record all phone calls.

If you must say anything, make it a mantra that you have memorized "I'll see what my attorney says". "Let's do this through email, alright?" "Let me get my phone out so we can record this so nobody gets confused, OK?" "Please step back, you're making the children nervous". Also, smile and talk as pleasantly as possible, especially if she is ranting-this may get her to have a shit fit in court and everybody will see what a nut she is.

itsforhismum · 2015-09-13T13:53:57+00:00

OK so i dont have any kids nor am i bound to any women! This is what i observed by watching my neighbor deal with his ex they have a son and she is currently pregnant by his former best friend fucking cunt. I would not call him alpha nor beta he is Kind if in the middle. But anytime his ex did act out he just ignored her behavior and told her that everything regarding the kid or payments will only be discussed trough bis lawyer! Never ever buy into her Drama !

Edit: oh and go fuck other bitches AS soon AS you can prefferably younger and or hotter than your ex!

trpSenator · 2015-09-12T20:22:56+00:00

I hope your lawyer is a family lawyer, because he should be the one giving you advice on this.

But basically, it's all a horse and pony show, and who does it best, wins. You just have to be a solid rock who ALWAYS takes the high road. Don't let her trick you into defending yourself and getting emotional. You just have to play it out by the books, safely, calmly and very maturely. This includes things like talking positive about her around the children.

However, at the same time, you need to start playing it extremely deceitfully. Pull her in close,allow her to lose her guard, and get her to slip up. You know her better than anyone. So push just the right buttons while maintaining plausable deniability, that are going to cause her to act psycho, say fucked up shit in front of the kids, or do something even slightly illegal (for instance, do you both share a good friend? Get the good friend to hang out with her and smoke some pot. Then get that friend to write an affidavit saying he smoked pot with her and watched her drive home before being with the kids, etc).

netgrey · 2015-09-12T18:51:57+00:00

If also suggest reading and internalizing from the book, "The Power of Now."

blkbullmentor · 2015-09-12T16:36:14+00:00

In the same boat. Will hopefully finalize divorce in a month as long as her lawyer doesn't do any more legal maneuvering to delay shit.

Wife falsified a story of abuse to get a restraining order. I can barely see my kids & had to fight tooth & nail to get what little visitation I have now until this shit is finalized. Trying to get joint custody as well.

I've found lifting & exercise has helped keep me sane. Side benefit, I look & feel better, been getting tons of stares from random bitches.

Keep records of EVERYTHING. I've been keeping a journal of every single event & every fuck up she's made so far. From missing phone calls to the kids to the thousands of dollars in medical claims she's racked up because she's in & out of the doc for all kinds of med problems. That fucker is going in front of the judge so he can read it and pray to God that it'll help him see that this bitch is full of shit.

Keep your kids in mind & that everything you do is for them. It's helped me. I'm convinced anyone else would've cracked a long time ago from what I've been through.

Good luck

Title	Any tips/resources for keeping frame in in a separation/custody dispute
Author	deadset17
Upvotes	20
Comments	33
Date	September 12, 2015 2:58 PM UTC (10 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/TheRedPill
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/TheRedPill/comments/3ko3fy/any_tipsresources_for_keeping_frame_in_in_a/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/TheRedPill/any-tipsresources-for-keeping-frame-in-in-a.36338 https://theredarchive.com/post/36338

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