Apprentice finalist: 'I hate feminists'

DavidTIntellectual

July 17, 2013

23 upvotes

Download the post

Want to save the post for offline use on your device? Choose one of the download options below:

PDF TXT EPUB

Support the archive

Everything here was supposed to disappear. Banned subreddits, deleted communities, cancelled blogs — much of what is archived here survives nowhere else.

It stays free — no paywall, no account — for the next man who comes looking, the way it was free for you.

I pay for the servers, the storage and the bandwidth myself. If you want this record still standing in ten years, become one of the people who keeps it online.

Support the archive

Post Information

Title	Apprentice finalist: 'I hate feminists'
Author	DavidTIntellectual
Upvotes	23
Comments	17
Date	July 17, 2013 9:45 PM UTC (13 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/TheRedPill
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/TheRedPill/comments/1iika3/apprentice_finalist_i_hate_feminists/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/TheRedPill/apprentice-finalist-i-hate-feminists.233809 https://theredarchive.com/post/233809

[–]TRP VanguardHumanSockPuppet20 points21 points22 points 13 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 3 points3 points3 points 13 years ago | Copy Link

[–]TRP VanguardHumanSockPuppet13 points14 points15 points 13 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

couldn't MGTOW be seen in a similar light. The self-perception men's victim-hood

Here's the difference.

MGTOW isn't just an ideology, it's a course of action. It's men DOING something about their condition as victims - that is, it is choosing to live a life you prefer (rather than one subscribed to you by people who are trying to shame you into compliance).

Feminism, on the other hand, is an ideology of inaction. It's the insistence that men must fix everything on behalf of women. Ensure "equal pay" for "equal work", protect us from rapists, absolve us for our negligence and lack of sense, make sure that the other boys play nice whenever we're around.

That was my original point. There's nothing stopping women from starting their own companies. Any excuses they come up worth (e.g. Patriarchy) are just excuses for their lack of interest, confidence, or competence in following through with the hard work.

[–]Terrible_Voice_Actor4 points5 points6 points 13 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]ThePacketSlinger3 points4 points5 points 13 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]TRP VanguardHumanSockPuppet1 point2 points3 points 13 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 13 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I think right-leaning American culture might have been strongly influenced by the idea of "going Galt" or "going on a strike". Ayn Rand and all that.

But actually it is a deeper, more international source, the idea of passive resistance - because it is harder to punish than the active one - is for example how Hungarian nobles after 1848 dealt with the victorious Habsburgs (maybe you heard the name Kossuth, yeah he was the guy who tried to lead that revolution and basically they lost.) It was basically a kind of a self imposed internal exile, passive resistance, quitting their public service jobs, retiring to their country estate, not participating in public life, living a retired lifestyle, finding good excuses for not paying taxes in time, the horses they were supposed to contribute to public works were somehow always ill, basically daring the Habsburgs to try to rule the country without their expertise and service. By 1867, less than two decades, the victors were more than ready to strike a decent compromise.

So I guess this sort of stuff works.

[–]TRP Vanguardss_camaro2 points3 points4 points 13 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

[+]boughtfreedom-12 points-11 points-10 points 13 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

[–]TRP VanguardHumanSockPuppet15 points16 points17 points 13 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

[–]Terrible_Voice_Actor3 points4 points5 points 13 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[+]boughtfreedom-6 points-5 points-4 points 13 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

Yes. They were exceptions to the rule. There were hundreds of men in similar positions and only the exceptionally talented women could get anything done. All of those women were also born into wealthy, educated families (with the possible exception of McClintock) and had opportunities denied to the 90%+ of women who weren't part of the upper class.

Tell me those women on the Apprentice were exceptionally talented or born into privilege. They weren't. They're just moderately talented, incredibly driven, and hard-working. And nowadays that's enough for them to work their way to a position where they can compete with their business ideas.

Oh, and Luisa had an abortion (legal in the UK) when she was 16. Hardly the image of the anti-feminist. If you actually read the article, she is 'pro-women in business' but has a problem with extremism. So do I. I just don't think extremists get to take the label feminism, anymore than I should be scared to call myself a Christian just because there are extremist Christians out there doing bad things.

In her case, she essentially is a Christian, but is telling people she hates Christians because she doesn't want to be associated with extremists. But the rational thing to do - and what Christians do - is to hang on to their label and affirm their personal beliefs and what the faith means to them.

[–]TRP VanguardHumanSockPuppet3 points4 points5 points 13 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

There were hundreds of men in similar positions and only the exceptionally talented women could get anything done.

Only exceptionally-talented people get their names written into the history books period.

The women I mentioned were written into history because they were exceptional thinkers, not exceptional women. And these are just the women we know about (just as the famous men are the only men we know about).

All of those women were also born into wealthy, educated families

So were the men.

A scientific career was a pursuit of the idle rich in those days, because only people with money to burn and no rent to pay had the capital and spare time to invest in intellectual pursuits. Tesla, Routh, Edison, Maxwell - all of them rich bastards. The real exceptions were people like Michael Faraday (who came from the middle class and earned his way into an apprenticeship through exceptional performance and luck).

Everyone else's job involved whacking at the dirt with a stick.

I just don't think extremists get to take the label feminism, anymore than I should be scared to call myself a Christian just because there are extremist Christians out there doing bad things.

Your definition of "feminist" or "Christian" is not privileged above that of any other person in the world, because the terms "feminist" and "Christian" lack objective justification. Without objective justification, one definition is as useless as the next.

That's why you look at actions and attitudes rather than words.

Luisa Zissman participates in a highly-competitive cutthroat television show and wants to bring several of her independent business ideas to life.

Meanwhile, your run-of-the-mill self-proclaimed "feminist" pisses and moans in her women's studies class about "wage equality" in a culture where women outspent men by margins as high as 9 to 1 in non-targeted markets.

Guess who I have more respect for.

[–]boughtfreedom-3 points-2 points-1 points 13 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I guess your definition of feminism is also useless then, as it is without objective justification? Luisa Zimmerman is definitely using the same definition as you. But I happen to think it's wrong to describe all feminists as extremists, as it is wrong to describe all Muslims as terrorists. Some of them are. But what are the rest meant to call themselves if you make Muslim a dirty word? It's a stupid, careless way to use language.

The problem with letting that word be used only by extremists and only to define extremists is mainly to deny and disrespect the remarkable positive things done in the past by women and men calling themselves feminists. And also because we don't yet have a better word for the economic, political and social equality that most people nowadays are actually perfectly happy with.

[–]Endorsed ContributorrebuildingMyself-1 points0 points1 point 13 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]boughtfreedom-1 points0 points1 point 13 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Comments