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Nutz76
[–]Endorsed Contributorpontifx10 points11 points12 points 12 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link
Bronies, furries, PUAs, all these things are new(ish, puas and furries have been around for a lot longer) classes emerging because the old classes are breaking down.
My take on it is that people are hit with so many different expectations conscious or otherwise they don't have the mental capacity to fight anymore so they run into pretend worlds each more accepting and elusively feminine than the next.
Each gives a certain permission that people crave and an instruction set to be able to perform that action. The primary difference between something like bronies and say pua is that the outcome of mastery in pua provides you with a limitless stage to play on the interests of women while mastering the understanding of the bronie community gives you a small subset of people to communicate with on a completely open level.
Even here at TRP we have a certain instruction manual on how to behave. Again, different from PUA (though closely related) we are rewarded with a practiced manliness not just charisma.
It also seems that (in terms of these new developing classes) the more parsimonious the class is in regards to it's aim and value to life the better the people are that are inhabiting it.
[–]stackedmidgets12 points13 points14 points 12 years ago* (4 children) | Copy Link
A lot of these also only boomed post-2007 (when the economy became fully Bernankified, lozlzolz).
Roughly when the American middle class began to be destroyed more savagely than it's been since maybe the '70s. [1] It's sort of quiet compared to how large the trend has been, but many people have had their lives annihilated during this time period. You could say that people are trying all sorts of odd behavioral patterns and hoping to find one that's adaptive, because people are (at least in terms of material wealth) dropping down the class system.
'Bronies' are usually so disgusting by conventional standards that they can only find fellowship among their fellow oddballs. The sheer strangeness of it puts a wall around it that prevents most people from hopping over. It's a barrier to entry to their realm of ~magical male friendship~.
Also, there are so many messages in the press that any male friendship is probably rooted in raving dick-hunger, so they ward off any shame of that by just overcompensating as so queer that even homosexuals think they're weird. This is all conjecture, though, because I've only ever made fun of bronies from the outside. I've never even spoken with one (never been terribly curious beyond the Wired article about the subculture).
Take away meaningful work, the companionship among strong male friends, and meaningful rewards for being a man, and you get half-boys who never accept what their nature pushes them to be. It'd be interesting to see a poll about how many of these people were raised by single moms.
When you repeatedly preach to men that maleness is 'toxic,' don't be shocked when they rush to become little girls with hairy chins to satisfy the perverse public doctrines that curse the very idea of manhood. Are not these boys exploring alternatives to past visions of masculine ideals? Where are all the feminists praising how beautiful and respect worthy these pock-marked creatures are?
These are your sons, dear columnists, dear gender-studies professors. You made them. Are you not proud of your she-boys?
[1]http://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2012/08/22/the-lost-decade-of-the-middle-class/
[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
raving dick-hunger
Lost it at this point, thanks for a laugh man.
[–]Endorsed Contributorpontifx0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
Excellent observations, where do you think social networking comes into play?
[–]stackedmidgets0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Social networking is a band-aid to staunch bigger wounds left by the ripped American social fabric.
There's no strong society to conform to anymore. People are encouraged to follow their individual feelings (and those sentiments are inculcated by collectivist educational institutions) rather than fit into a functional civilization. Officials discourage excellence, because that's a masculine value that women mostly don't care about.
Because America is decivilized, people instead seek to bond with each other over superficial affinities. Think of how Facebook used to be: people described themselves as a collection of 'interests' in their favorite movies, their favorite 'quotes,' their favorite books, their favorite TV shows... people are largely anonymous and thrust into crowds of other anonymous people, and the only commonalities they can find are through their shared interests in media.
These brony people have formed a decentralized cult around a children's TV show. They've apparently formed a moral code and elevated various characters from the show to positions of minor godhood. They praise the television show's creator as a sort of prophetess. They dress in distinctive costumes and apparently attend festivals to celebrate their shared tradition of worship. This worship code evidently doesn't place many obligations upon the faithful other than that they praise abstract values like 'friendship.' Like pink Quakers or something.
A good Roman patrician or a good Christian or a good Jew or a good Muslim or a good Athenian or a good Prussian or a good Victorian Englishman all have had expectations, requirements, and strictures on their behavior. Their shared culture did come from 'media' of a sort, but their claim to be representatives of that culture were concurrent with their obedience to certain sets of interlocking moral norms. Moderns just 'like' things, which is why they're pathetic. Men who came before cultivated friendships that they could rely upon, based on a shared sense of the righteous life.
So, modern people still have the same needs as all people everywhere for something to believe in and bonds with other humans to realize those beliefs. Entrepreneurs have built social networks (note: I've worked at such companies, not that it matters much) to fulfill that unmet demand. I personally think a lot of internet behavior induces a sort of dream state. It fools people into believing that they have 'friendships' that don't actually mean anything. Social networks flash the image of friendship, popularity, reputation, and meaning without containing the substance. It's largely people flashing illusions at one another.
Heroin provides joy without effort, social networking software provide the illusion of a social network with little effort. It's built on clicks and fakery. Physical human closeness isn't something that you can remove entirely from social relations without strange consequences. When people relate online, their images meet with one another, but never the people themselves.
[–]Endorsed Contributorpontifx1 point2 points3 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Never thought about social networking that way. Now it occurs me like a social worker and the displaced child is classisms. The kid is passed from home to home given the illusion of family, but in reality he is only tortured by what he cannot have.
Ultimately it creates a child who knows how to have a family and now has a given forceful urge to make one or he is destroyed by the sentiment and believes his illusion so hard he attempts to make it real for his "families" and succeeds.
Even the conversation we are having right now is affected by this. Didn't think a post on bronies would turn out so insightful lol
[–]Nutz76[S] 6 points7 points8 points 12 years ago (16 children) | Copy Link
So why did I just post this? On one hand it's an example of extreme MGTOW, rejecting social norms and doing what they want against cultural expectations. On the other hand, it strikes me as a very weak example of MGTOW, as if it's by accident from a lack of testosterone. Because of this I really don't know if I should condone what they're doing, feel sorry for them, or support them in full. It's quite the personal conundrum for me.
For the record my gf watched it for a while, so I did catch a few episodes. If I had a small kids I'd be perfectly find letting them watch it as the show is one of the few ones on today that actually has lessons they try to teach to kids.
[–]atlascrowed 20 points21 points22 points 12 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link
I see them as a symptom of our problematic culture. From my brief interactions with the show My Little Pony (I watched the pilot episode out of curiosity when the internet was practically having an aneurysm over it), I think the attraction is that the pony characters, who are supposed to be young women, exhibit the traits modern culture insists you'll find in women. You know, typical cartoon stuff. One of them represents purity, one of them represents loyalty, one of them represents honesty, and so forth. It's exactly what is lacking in today's women.
I think these are sad blue pill men who have rejected today's real women in favor of these fake representations of women. It is, as you say, sort of MGOTW, but they have not swallowed the pill or learned to throw aside their childish notions about the intelligent, loving, loyal women we grew up to so innocently desire.
[–]Nutz76[S] 10 points11 points12 points 12 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link
That's... pretty deep actually. I hadn't considered that. What it strikes me as is the grass-eating movement found in Japan, and by a similar token the guys who have the body pillow of their favorite female anime characters who can "embrace" them. It's part of a fantasy of being emotionally attached to or seeking something then can (probably) never have.
In a way it's the exact opposite of red pill thinking as it puts women up on an even higher pedestal.
[–]atlascrowed 11 points12 points13 points 12 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
It does put them on a pedestal, in a way, but the characters earn their pedestal, so to speak. They are punished when they hurt others, and rewarded when they are kind and helpful.
I will say this: assuming that the show maintained the pilot's lesson of actively becoming a good woman/girl = reward, rather than simply prancing around like a princess = reward, I would insist any daughters I ever had watch it and burn every Disney movie that came into the house. With the exception of Mulan.
[–]dropit_sphere7 points8 points9 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
(Sons should watch The Lion King, though)
[–]iKill_eu0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
TRP semi-brony here. Has watched every episode + the movie, but never went to any cons, doesn't own any merc (used to have a poster but took it down a year ago), and doesn't embrace the full on movement.
I will say this: assuming that the show maintained the pilot's lesson of actively becoming a good woman/girl = reward
In part, this is actually the message the show delivers - there's a large amount of character development that is noted and praised, and female qualities of all kinds - not just girly qualities, but definitely not feminist she-man drivel either - are built up over time.
I think that for many of the hardcore bronies the fandom is definitely an autism outlet. I look at the cons and hardcore MLP fans, and honestly, while I watch and enjoy the show, I'm still fairly disgusted by most of the fandom.
I have a daughter, so this show is regularly on in my house. I have stated, that I admire the fact that they want young girls to possess actual skills (intelligence, honesty etc) rather than just being this helpless creature (as most disney portrayals). The characters in the show get rewarded for doing things that actually matter.
[–]W-Z-R9 points10 points11 points 12 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Never watched the show, but maaan, this is thee reason why I haven't. I think I would actually get into that shit.
[–]t21spectre4 points5 points6 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
You probably wouldn't, I watched two episodes on YouTube to see what this Brony thing was all about and the show is very much for 6-9 year old girls.
After watching it I was left with more questions than I started, although along the lines of psychology and sociology, the biggest one being why these men (typical age is late teens to early twenties) would watch such a show made for little girls and create this subculture...
[–]Amuro_Rey7 points8 points9 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I can understand the thought process: "I could go out, and bust my ass to get a moderately attractive dame that'll shit-test me, grow old, and want me to buy her things. Or I could become the Pony Master." People tend to forget the 'middle ground,' after all.
I personally support them in full. If it makes them feel young and happy, I say go for it.
[–]trudatness 2 points3 points4 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Nothing shatters the false illusion of the feminine persona, like dealing with actual women.
The problem happens when one clings to the false ideal, despite the reality that is happening all around them.
The entire "Brony" culture is kind of cute for a 12 year old, and innocence is a good thing for children to have, but eventually they have to be introduced to the real world happening around them.
There is wisdom, at least IMO, in still having this ideal as opposed to just acquiescing to an ever increasing harsh reality. Having said that, what we don't want is to breed a generation of beta men who are easy marks for predatory females.
[–][deleted] 6 points7 points8 points 12 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
rejecting social norms and doing what they want against cultural expectations.
You sure society didn't reject them and they're not just doing what they can?
[–]Nutz76[S] 3 points4 points5 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
That's entirely possible. This is the kind of dialog I wanted to have and is why I posted this.
[–]eatsleeepraverepeat1 point2 points3 points 12 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
...its an example of extreme autism more like it
[–]Nutz76[S] 2 points3 points4 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Knowing some bronies, I would have to agree that autism is certainly at play for at least some of them. I'd wager the same can be said for a lot of the guys who gravitate to the seduction community. Autism, aspergers, you name it.
[–]W-Z-R0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I lolled at this
[–][deleted] 3 points3 points3 points 12 years ago | Copy Link
[permanently deleted]
[–]Lok_Die1 point2 points3 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Great thing about a theory that sees brutal peer review.
It can be changed till it actually fits the truth.
And it can be used to understand almost anything.
[–][deleted] 3 points4 points5 points 12 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link
I like the cartoon, fuck it.
I don't think I'd ever go to a pony or furry themed convention though.
Conventions and costumes and stuff is actually a good bit of fun when it isn't creepy or sad.
[–]Nutz76[S] 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
Fair enough. Also, Otakon and similar conventions are a mecca of hot nerdy chicks. I was floored by how much T&A there was last year. I'd say about half of the women who went were babes, which is better than your average slice of American pie with what the obesity epidemic has done to the populace. Also, I think they're nerdier which translates to a bit smarter than average, and I know from firsthand experience that smart chicks take better care of themselves and tend to be pretty hot. In the miltiary the intel chicks were the hottest on base. There's a definite correlation and similar effect happening with the chick at the cons I've seen.
[–]Endorsed ContributorrebuildingMyself0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Aren't most of those "babes" just pseudo-nerds paid to prance around in scantily-clad costumes to keep everyone else excited?
[–]Nutz76[S] 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Not in my experience. Some of the events will have "booth babes", but they're in the minority. Most of the hotties running around are just chicks that like that stuff.
In my opinion cons are FANTASTIC places to run game because a lot of the guys there are socially awkward/aspergers (i.e. bronies). Lack of competition + lots of hotties + tight game makes for an amazing time. Just make sure you are congruent if you go to such cons. If it's for anime then you better know a thing or 2 about Otaku, anime, and so on, otherwise you'll stick out like a sore thumb and be questioned similar to how people see old guys at a club that's 18+.
[–]DumbPeopleAngerFast0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Cringe.
I really wish this was in some other country, we really don't need to be advertising the gentrification of our males.
[–]Endorsed ContributorrebuildingMyself0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Japan has us beat with the herbivore movement, however I don't see us that much further behind.
Holy shit.
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