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[Long Post] Thinking Out Loud. Insights Welcome.

_whistler

October 11, 2013
5 upvotes
/r/TheRedPill
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Post Information
Title [Long Post] Thinking Out Loud. Insights Welcome.
Author

_whistler

Upvotes 5
Comments 15
Date October 11, 2013 5:40 PM UTC
(12 years ago)
Subreddit Posted in /r/TheRedPill
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/TheRedPill/comments/1o8g00/long_post_thinking_out_loud_insights_welcome/
Archive Link https://theredarchive.com/r/TheRedPill/long-post-thinking-out-loud-insights-welcome.7171
https://theredarchive.com/post/7171
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Comments

[–]TRP VanguardArchwinger6 points7 points8 points 12 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

There's a fair chance your redhead would have liked you even more if you'd been snarky toward the big-tit girl. You could totally have played that situation off as you not being attracted to her, even with her big tits, and she just came over and invited herself to chat up your group of friends, obviously feeling entitled because of her tits, so you called her out.

Even if she'd have thought you were making a slightly serious pass at the big tit girl, that would just amp up her desire to keep you. The rules don't change when you're in a relationship, or even when you're married. If you're a boring, polite, milktoast guy, your girl is eventually going to stop respecting you.

If you want to please the redhead, manipulate situations like this one so that it's clear you had an option with another woman, then drive off the other woman and "choose" your girlfriend over her.

[–]_whistler[S] 1 point2 points3 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

That's a fair point. It very well could have played out like that. I can't pretend to operate in a solely analytical mode in every situation. Mostly, I go with my gut instinct. Sometimes when I'm out with my redhead, other girls will flirt with me and I'll game them back, and it's all good fun. In this situation, my gut was telling me to abort the play. Doesn't mean I was correct to do so, but I guess the important thing may be to watch out for a trend, and nip it in the bud before it turns into a Beta-ward spiral.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points6 points 12 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Is my redhead this woman? Of course I don't know. It's far too early to tell. But if I don't treat her like that woman, like she has the potential to become that woman...what am I doing? I don't want to waste my time, and even if I don't select her, I want to leave her better than I found her.

A concept often brought up on this sub is value. In this case, what value does your girlfriend bring to you and your life, and how unique is it based on your previous experiences? Thinking through the answer to that question will help guide your decision.

[–]RPstudent1 point2 points3 points 12 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

One takeaway I have gotten from your comments past was an emphasis on authenticity. In particular that your game is an extension of who you are naturally. You're describing a transition from that natural asshole frame to a different one. And there's nothing wrong with that on the surface.

What I would question you about is this:

I don't want to waste my time, and even if I don't select her, I want to leave her better than I found her. She's fragile, and needs my protection. She needs a rock, which is what I've devoted my life to becoming.

What motivates you to want to leave her better than you found her? Does her fragility inspire your desire to protect her? What prompts you to be the rock she needs?

You may choose as a rational agent to act in whatever manner you choose. But there is an air of oneitis in the paragraph I quoted. And that is up to you to determine whether that coheres with the rock you have devoted your life to becoming.

[–]_whistler[S] 1 point2 points3 points 12 years ago* (2 children) | Copy Link

What motivates you to want to leave her better than you found her? Does her fragility inspire your desire to protect her? What prompts you to be the rock she needs?

I'm a problem solver. I like to think creatively in order to fix broken things, or improve things that could be improved. The more complex, the better, and there really is nothing to rival the complexity of a human being. When I help someone view their personal journey in a new light, when I contribute to the improvement of such a complex system as the human psyche...it fills that inner need to fix, to solve, to master the world. It's extremely arrogant of me, but there you have it.

Yes, feminine fragility is a definite trigger to my Protector instinct. I'm sure this is largely due to proximity, because I'm generally only protective of those I care about, in the friends & family paradigm. I've actually known this girl for years - she dated one of my best friends a while back - but I've never thought much about her or spent time with her until becoming interested in her sexually.

more to follow in edit...

edit: okay, I'm back. Suddenly had 5 seconds to log out of the computer I was using. Anyway.

there is an air of oneitis in the paragraph I quoted

You're not wrong. This is my primary misgiving, I want to make sure I'm not blinding myself and developing oneitis here. I appreciate your observations, and I see some more comments rolling in now, so hopefully TRP will help get this all clear in my head again.

[–]RPstudent2 points3 points4 points 12 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

I wouldn't describe the overall problem solving mentality as arrogance. However, when it edges beyond abstract problem solving into person fixer status, I see that as trending to arrogance. So the next question that your response prompts is whether you regard this woman a fixer upper?

/u/RPreboot's point about the value she brings is appropriate. In the process of leaving her better than you found her you likely will give her more value than she gives you. Is that a tradeoff with which you are comfortable? Perhaps because your Protector instinct is so strong it is valuable to pour more into her than she can return to you.

How easily can you take a few days away, a weekend retreat, that kind of thing, to order your thoughts?

[–]_whistler[S] 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

I tend to regard everyone as fixer uppers. Myself included. That's what I've found so valuable about Red Pill philosophy; since embracing the truths found here and in other Red Pill parts of the web, I've gained a valuable set of tools for fixing myself. That aside, is my girl more of a fixer-upper than most? Not at all, in fact, I think she's a little easier to deal with because she puts forth the necessary effort herself. That's important to me; the desire to self-optimize is rare, at least in my area, and particularly in women.

So please understand, when I say that I want to fix broken things or contribute to the improvement of a human psyche, I'm simply expressing one of my most compelling motivations. It's not specific to any individual, it's the way I look at everyone.

Now. The question of value is important, I agree. It's also impossible to entirely quantify. There are so many different spheres of the human experience in which value can be given and received, and not all these are necessarily perceptible to either the value-giver or the value-receiver. I can't apprehend the minutiae of daily actions, signals, triggers, et cetera as they contribute to my unconscious mind, just as I can't comprehend the influence on my consciousness of those items my unconscious receives. So instead, I have to focus on my own priorities, the ways in which I most want to receive value. Not only will this be different in my case than in the cases of others, but as I evolve in each sphere of experience, my priorities will also shift. Keeping this in mind, I experience rational uncertainty if I consider value intellectually, simply because I'm incapable of thinking in concrete terms about my motivations except in the context of this present moment. All this is to say, I must make intuitive connections to determine what value I receive from another person.

This is what I put into practice in my relationships. I don't really focus on the value I receive from others. Instead, I focus on giving value to myself. If I can be productive, healthy, content - all of which is to say, whole - in my own right, with only the value I assign to myself...that's really all I need to focus on. Everything else falls into place intuitively, because by default I will weed out activities, behaviors, and people that don't contribute to my own value.

edited for clarity

[–]kadidle511 point2 points3 points 12 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

OP, you and me are very similar. I have bedded many women in my days. But I was never deceitful to them. I would always be up front with them about what I expected from them and what they could in turn expect from me. I don't hate women, not by a long shot. I love them actually, even though they are crazy. But I personally think it is shitty to be a lying deceitful asshole to them just to fuck them on a one nighter. I've pulled plenty of one nighters just being honest about the situation.

"hi, we should have sex, no strings attached. If it goes good in other areas tonight as well we may meet up again"

paraphrasing obviously

I value family as a legacy, I also value a good partner as well. Luckily I have a fantastic women in my life that is beyond loyal and has a high sex drive.

tl:dr you can be alpha and get tons of women without being a raging dickhead and lying asshole. Actually you probably get higher quality ones this way.

[–]_whistler[S] 2 points3 points4 points 12 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Morality aside, I agree with your method. Let me add that I've discovered, with the relationship between my high sexual drive & my moderate social drive, I'm most fulfilled when I pursue longer sexual relationships with few women, rather than short sexual relationships with many women. By PUA standards, my approach rate is abysmally low, but my close rate doesn't suffer for it.

[–]kadidle511 point2 points3 points 12 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

brofist to fellow wolf alpha

[–]_whistler[S] 1 point2 points3 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

::brofist::

[–]Thors_Cock0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

How is she fragile?

[–]_whistler[S] 1 point2 points3 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

In one sense, I mean that she's "delicate" in her femininity. In her moments of utter honesty, she's a girl-child longing for a protector, and in the same moment is a woman yearning to be ravaged in erotic conquest. This is certainly not unique to her among women, it is a primary tenet of the feminine.

In another sense, she's fragile emotionally. She shores up the trenches of her heart with learned behaviors, builds walls and moats from the materials commanded of her by modern feminist doctrine as "for your equality and protection and well-being". But every time I call her out - I demand loyalty above all else, and the shield of disingenuousness is nothing but emotional disloyalty - she melts into the submission that is in her nature. And of course this genuine, intimate submission is her true strength. When we protect and guard ourselves with emotional walls, it's only because we aren't strong enough to withstand the hardships of natural social intercourse.

[–]batfish550 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Tough call. A couple of thoughts...

...When you START moderating yourself, there's a fair chance you're going to do it more often. It's what happens when you get comfortable in a relationship and stop trying as hard. It's happened to me more than once. It's hard to come back from that.

...Granted, 'show us your tits or go away' would be a ballsy move (and not all guys could pull it off), but I don't think it would have equated to blatantly hitting on someone in front of your woman. Plus, if Tits did whip them out, it'd be showing your woman that you still got it, that you can get any woman you want, so she better keep up her game.

....Tell me you don't take your woman with you to most Man Nights. Man Night is for you and your boys. You're not allowed to have bad days in front of her, but you can in front of your boys.

[–]_whistler[S] 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

All good thoughts, thanks brother.

And don't worry, this wasn't a Man Night. I left before everyone else got there because I work earlier in the morning than they do, but other girls were on the way.

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