Rape or hamstering?

dakkr · 2014-08-25T02:00:29+00:00

If things happened as she described then I would say it's sexual assault. You can argue that consent doesn't need to be verbal, ie that you can assume consent from physical actions (for example, if a girl strips naked, pushes you into her bed, then rips off your pants, you can be pretty sure consent is implied even if she doesn't say a word), but in this case, from her description, she lay there and did nothing. On its own, you can't interpret a lack of action as consent. If this had been a boyfriend or someone she had some sort of existing relationship with it might be different depending on the context, but it's some random steward on a plane who she's never met before.

It's not really rape though because there was no actual sex or forced penetration, the article just says he 'touched her genitals'. If that's accurate it doesn't qualify as rape imo, though sexual assault is still a serious matter.

SgtTRP · 2014-08-25T02:13:05+00:00

I didn't go to the linked page. I am assuming it all happened according to her description.

So basically what I ask here is: Did she actually consent the man to everything (and maybe even enjoyed it),

Yes. She didn't consent verbally. But when the man invaded her personal space she said nothing, did nothing. When the man started touching her she said nothing, did nothing. When the man put his hands in her pants, she said nothing, did nothing. She was awake and sober all this time. So her inaction is consent in this particular context. Fuck yes, she did consent.

and then came back with rape because...

You know what. Maybe she was scheming to accuse this guy with rape later when all this was happening. Who knows?

But we know one thing: she could have stopped it, she did not. Judge people by their actions. She led the guy in on this and now she's trying to destroy his life. Sadism.

Skiffbug · 2014-08-25T02:49:00+00:00

From the article, she says this:

. . . 'Why didn't I scream, why didn't I shout? Why didn't I stop it? I am a strong person because I can do that, I know I can,'" Ms Bushney said.

"When I was in the moment, I couldn't. I felt so scared, so petrified."

I'm as against false rape claims as the next guy here, but I think this is different. She was having a panic attack to start with, because she was terrified about flying on Malaysian Airlines. The guy started off giving her a bit of a leg massage, so she was probably just starting to relax a little. When the guy stuck his hands down her pants, by her account she basically froze in fear. Stuff like that can definitely happen, especially if you are already afraid, but do not expect anything from someone with you. Even men freeze sometimes, though usually in a violent confrontation like a mugging, rather than in a sexual situation.

Sexual abuse can also be so unexpected and insidious that you don't know how to deal with it at the time. Look at all the grown men who have come out to accuse their childhood abusers, who had never said anything for years and often even felt guilty about it. Sexual abuse can be a tricky thing to judge from your armchair. From everything I know about sexual abuse, her account seems to be genuine.

MagicGainbow · 2014-08-25T02:28:43+00:00

These days the cynical me assumes not rape, i've seen it thrown falsely so many times I just don't care any more.

Skiffbug · 2014-08-25T06:54:30+00:00

So I found the original article (the other was a re-post of sorts) and they spell the whole thing out much better than the other half-assed article.

She states that she did once push her hand away, but he persisted. That being true, it leans things closer to assault. I'm a bit more convinced she may have a case, but still a lot of odd things, though.

If she taped the leg-rubbing part, how about recording the actual rape part?

When speaking to the man, he never admits to doing anything beyond trying to comfort her (which admittedly is inappropriate) and denies having raped her, even to the airline.

The Canadian lady seems to think that his desperate look is an admission of guilt, but could it possibly be a man desperate as he is seeing himself be entrapped?

I'm keeping an eye out for this one to see where it lands, genuinely curious.

FortunateBum · 2014-08-25T16:43:47+00:00

I think she's exaggerating. Probably he only touched her legs. But yeah, guy shouldn't've done it.

Imagine though if she said he only touched her legs. Tougher case. I mean, come on, how do you get your hands so far down into someone's pants in an airline seat so that you can touch their genitals? I don't know if that's possible.

attempt_again · 2014-08-26T04:35:01+00:00

From my schools most recent rape quiz:

"Any sexual act can become sexual assault, even if the victim DOES NOT SAY NO EXPLICITLY. It must be inferred as "enthusiastic non-verbal consent during the sex act".

Title	Rape or hamstering?
Author	Skiffbug
Upvotes	1
Comments	23
Date	August 25, 2014 1:33 AM UTC (11 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/TheRedPill
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/TheRedPill/comments/2ehpb3/rape_or_hamstering/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/TheRedPill/rape-or-hamstering.19974 https://theredarchive.com/post/19974

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