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[–]shamanbard 17 points18 points19 points 13 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Law of Power #30: Make your accomplishments seem effortless.
“Yeah, but he looks like he works out on purpose. I want a guy who’s just burly like he’s been chopping wood.”
Remember, women don't want to know that you put actual work into your accomplishments. They prefer the image that you are just naturally that way. They don't want to know about past you, the beta or fat guy, they only care about the you that gives them the 'giner tingles today.
[–]RedHonest 7 points8 points9 points 13 years ago* (6 children) | Copy Link
Okay guys, let me explain what's going on here. I think some of you guys have the wrong idea.
First, remember this: Female attraction doesn't work the way male attraction works. Female attraction isn't nearly as visual as male attraction. She wants a strong guy...someone who can throw her around, and overwhelm her physically. Again, it's not about what your body looks like, but what it feels like.
Second, this controversy is really about status. You think it's about looks, but it's not. The looks women really care about are your face and your ass, everything else is really about fashion/status.
Here's the thing about status: It's always changing what is high-status, what is low-status. In the dark ages when the peasants were starving, and gluttony was a sign of wealth and class, guess what kind of body form women were throwing themselves after?
At one time tans and a muscular build were turn-offs, because that meant you were a laborer. You spent all day in the sun, lifting heavy loads, and this look signaled low class.
Then a few generations later tans and a muscular physique signaled high class, because it required wealth and being in-the-know, to learn how to work out, join health spas, and hire trainers. Arnold Schwarzenneger associated body building with celebrity.
But this didn't last long, because body building turned out to be a low-cost signal and soon lower-middle and low class people were emulating the celebrities, and developing substantial physiques. It's not the physique itself, but bodybuilding that can signal low-class, or at least it doesn't signal high-class like it used to. (Note that I still recommend working out and developing muscle, just don't be delusional on what the effect on women is going to be.)
Today, for a majority of women in this information age, it is actually thinner physiques, thick glasses, and a general nerdiness that is beginning to signal high-class. Fashionable now are skinny jeans, basically jeans that I can't fit my legs into, are considered the epitome of fashion and style, the thick glasses are in vogue again.
Women just aren't visual in the way men are, and it's a common blue pill fallacy to think in terms of "What sort of physique are women attracted to?" The answer is always, "What sort of men are women associating with high class and high status, and what do they look like?" The down side is that game isn't eternal: Stuff that used to work, no longer works. Stuff that never did work, is starting to work.
Adapt or perish.
Addendum: Status is tricky to pick down, because it's really a measure of overall social dominance. But what signals high status often changes depending on your locale. Also note, for game, you're interested in what signals high status for the targets that you're after, not what your opinion is. In some parts of the country, the skinny/nerdy look is in. In other parts of the country, they care more about tatooed bad boys on motorcycles. In the south women love a man in uniform, in the north east she wants a faggy metrosexual. Read the field.
[–]Dreidhen 0 points1 point2 points 13 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Generalizing helps to an extent, but this post might give the wrong impression. You're right about the varying standards of beauty (see Rubenesque body types) over time, and I do see the hipstersexual look everywhere here in NYC, but that doesn't appeal to every girl (only a certain sub-sect that use the look as a cue). What does? A healthy body will always be attractive, and in general a fit, healthy body has looked the same over the centuries.
[–]RedHonest 1 point2 points3 points 13 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
but that doesn't appeal to every girl (only a certain sub-sect that use the look as a cue)
Pretty sure that's what I just said. Yes, I generalize to prevent a 10-paragraph post exploding into a 10 volume document. Gotta read between the lines a little.
A healthy body will always be attractive, and in general a fit, healthy body has looked the same over the centuries.
Disagree with this, mainly because in the big picture fitness is relative, and health has become a cultural ideology. By the latter, we conflate "health" with "beauty", we consider attractive bodies healthy because they are attractive. When women exercise to look great in a bikini they will often invoke the ideology "I'm practicing a healthy lifestyle." No, she's vain and wants to gain the attention of alpha men, but she won't say that.
But attraction is a very poor standard for health.
[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 13 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Spitting hot fire right hurr.
[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 13 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
because body building turned out to be a low-cost signal
I am not convinced about that. It is costly in time and willpower cost. Especially the nutrition and not boozing all the time part. It is goddamn hard not to drink 6 beers a day like my dad and all the mature men I know do.
Another thing is, that status is not completely fluid, anything that boosts testosterone is bound to attract women. This is a biological reality. It is hard to be high testosterone and confident without that.
Also, over a certain age there is no skinny. Either strong, or fat. The lure of alcohol and fatty food is just too strong.
I sort of agree that narcissistic body building is problematic, people need to train for strength feats, not the mirror.
[–]RedHonest 0 points1 point2 points 13 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
It is costly in time and willpower cost. Especially the nutrition and not boozing all the time part. It is goddamn hard not to drink 6 beers a day like my dad and all the mature men I know do.
Your point is true, but it is a low-cost signal for high status. In other words, it is no longer a strong indicator for possessing high status in society. It's become cheaper for people of all classes to engage in bodybuilding routines.
Another thing is, that status is not completely fluid, anything that boosts testosterone is bound to attract women.
I'm not completely convinced of that, honestly. I strongly favor the testosterone hypothesis, but only I favor the idea that from an evolutionary perspective, that female attraction selects for testosterone which is the hormone we associate with masculinity. However, I want to see strong empirical support for this. If it's true, then taking steroids and other testosterone suppliments would be an easy substitute for game.
Testosterone is not a substitute for game but a prerequisite for it. The confidence to look in the eyes of a hot woman, say something without a shaking voice, not to have a beaten dog posture etc. is testosterone, and what to say is game. So T is pretty much inner game IMHO.
[–]Deldar 2 points3 points4 points 13 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Example: Donny Shankle. About as strong as a human naturally can be:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xdhOdJ_NVao
[–]juchanaut6 points 13 years ago* [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link
Loved this post, had a good chuckle at the TL;DR at the end.
Some very good points though, women's standards for men are absolutely outrageous these days. While most of them do nothing to work on themselves except buy shoes and drink Starbucks; then expect us to worship their retarded selves.
You have to work on yourself if you want someone who also does the same, don't sit there like a little child screaming for ice cream. Silly entitled woman.
[–]Invincibull 2 points2 points2 points 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
It's easy to pigeonhole this as stupidity, but let me play devil's advocate for a minute. Perhaps she was trying to distinguish between someone with average/below average genes who's used bodybuilding to build themselves up*, compared to a guy with great genes who maybe doesn't train as hard, but looks better.
[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 13 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
strong gh gut of peace
[–]Dreidhen 0 points1 point2 points 13 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
These are not guys who want to look like the mutant space gorillas we have for bodybuilders these days. These are guys who want to look within 15 per cent of Patrick Bateman.
[–]MarkyBhoy101 3 points4 points5 points 13 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
It's never fucking good enough for these whores is it.
[–]snake- 1 point2 points3 points 13 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I lol'd at this
There's some truth in there. Many women love the 'natural' ex-athlete look. Decently muscular and proportional, but not super-lean.
Nobody looks what is now called “good” through normal activities. You have to work at it, for the sole purpose of vanity
Totally fucking disagree. In healthier ages, men focused on feats of strength, athleticism etc. and looks naturally followed. Working out with the mirror in mind is unmasculine.
"what is now called good" ? Who cares? This is a very superficial age, do not adopt its standards.
Be a lifter who wants to deadlift X kg, don't be a guy who wants nice traps.
[–][deleted] 13 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link
[permanently deleted]
[–]TRP VanguardVZPurp 4 points5 points6 points 13 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Eh, it just looks like the former did the combination of hypertrophy training+anabolic steroids for many years. Seems like a pointless comparison.
[–]Invincibull3 points 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
chicks subconsciously pick up on the manufactured look that bodybuilding produces, abnormally large shoulder chest and biceps, with a skinny necks and legs... vs the "natural" brawnyman wood chopping anaolgy that strength training produces. one is sexy one is not.
It's not bodybuilding that produces that look, it's incomplete training where the person doesn't train certain bodyparts and typically uses mostly isolation exercises. If a "bodybuilder" has skinny legs then it's not because he's a "bodybuilder", it's because he doesn't train legs.
[–]justdothedada 1 point2 points3 points 13 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
A bodybuilder should never have skinny legs. In a competition one of the main things a bodybuilder is judged on is symmetry. This is why many bodybuilders don't like having a 'best' body part, since that would mean the other areas are lagging.
But its true women hate the amount of time a guy takes to look good but they love the result.
I'm a guy and I would say the second picture is more sexy. But that's not saying much, I hope.
[–]RedHonest -1 points0 points1 point 13 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Disagree. The difference between the two pictures is purely one of body fat. Bodybuilders in contest-condition look sick because they have abnormally low levels of body fat. In fact, they can usually only maintain that low degree of body fat for a week or so. The rest of the year they look more like the second guy.
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[–]shamanbard 17 points18 points19 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]RedHonest 7 points8 points9 points (6 children) | Copy Link
[–]Dreidhen 0 points1 point2 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]RedHonest 1 point2 points3 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points (2 children) | Copy Link
[–]RedHonest 0 points1 point2 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]Deldar 2 points3 points4 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]juchanaut6 points [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]Invincibull 2 points2 points2 points [recovered] | Copy Link
[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]Dreidhen 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]MarkyBhoy101 3 points4 points5 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]snake- 1 point2 points3 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–][deleted] (6 children) | Copy Link
[–]TRP VanguardVZPurp 4 points5 points6 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]Invincibull3 points [recovered] | Copy Link
[–]justdothedada 1 point2 points3 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]RedHonest -1 points0 points1 point (1 child) | Copy Link