What do y'all think about the decision between upholding the dgaf/chill/abundance frame and mindset and all the stories we always hear of women who seem to like perseverance in men?

BloodRedPillz · 2018-01-24T17:42:25+00:00

I'd rather not be the one pestering girls and qualifying myself constantly just so that they'd date/fuck me. It's just needy behaviour and nobody would be attracted to someone that acts this way. Breaking through shit-tests in a calm, collected and cocky-funny manner is a completely different type of perseverance that is actually attractive. It's just a classic example of girls saying they like one thing but really desiring another.

kamar022 · 2018-01-24T17:27:15+00:00

It depends on where you want the relationship to go. Do you want to have kids by this woman since her genes and family/upbringing are congruent with your expectations for your progeny? Then you can start by seducing through a cool but assertive attitude and move all the way to where you feel comfortable. This means waiting between changing levels of pursuit to make sure she's not simply waiting to see how you'll react to soft rejection - if you react 'strongly' by upping your game immediately she'll reject more. You'll be an orbiter, savagely given crumbs to keep you interested so until/if the day she needs options arrives you'll be tapped for either resources/stability or sperm or both. That's if you're elevated to 'keep him on the backburner he could be useful' level and not 'he's a creep'.

What do you want for yourself? Do you want a woman who 'accepts' you to be her provider and has you by the balls from day one? Do you want a woman who gets tingles around you and is afraid of loosing you to other women who 'have' to feel the same way as she? In one life you're struggling to not lose the opportunity to fuck her and the other you're doing simple 'upkeep'. I saw a post here about a year ago that should be your guide. I forget who it's by so excuse the no credit paste. Here it is:

If a woman is interested in you, her emotions will overcome her seduction strategy and her fear of losing you will dominate any seduction methods she is aware of. If a woman isn't texting you it isn’t because she’s playing waiting games with you. It’s because she’s not interested. So instead of chasing her and trying to bait her to respond, move on with your life. If a woman is postponing meeting up with you, it isn’t because she is being coy and trying to make you chase her. It's because she doesn’t want to be with you, move on with your life. If a woman hesitates when giving you her contact information, it isn’t a signal to game harder. It’s because she feels awkward and is giving you her number to get you away. Move on with your life. If a woman says she is still getting over her ex, it doesn’t mean she’s getting over her ex. It’s because she doesn’t like you and doesn’t want to hurt your feelings. Time to move on with your life. If a woman breaks up with you, it doesn’t mean she wants you to fight for her or try harder. It’s over, move on. If a woman doesn’t invite you back up to her place after you drop her off, it doesn’t mean she’s taking it slow. It means she doesn’t want your cock. Move on. If a woman says her life is too busy at the moment, it doesn’t mean she is so involved with stuff that she literally has no time to date. Women make time for high smv men. Move on. I hope you see the pattern here. Women don’t play hard to get. A woman doesn’t treat Chad Thundercock like shit because they cannot overcome the tingles Chad gives them. If she is dishing you shit it means she’s just not feeling those tingles from you. Women are their emotions. They speak in emotions, they think in emotions, they do in emotions. Everything is dictated by their emotions. So a woman head over heels in love with you will display her emotions to you. She won’t dare be a bitch to you. Sure, women are strategic and know how to play the game. But at the end of the day, a woman who likes you will make it obvious she likes you. Body language doesn't lie. Stop trying so hard. Stop chasing. Stop pursuing something that is out of your reach. Get over the fact that no matter how hard you try, some women just don’t want to sleep with you. Focus on the women who are putting out. Focus your attention on the women who are yielding dividends. Focus on the women worthy of you and your time. Learn to drop women from your life. Learn to forget about them. Learn to see the signs and accept that they are either playing you for a fool or too polite to outright reject you. Get rid of scarcity mentality. Understand and appreciate that there are thousands of women out there for you to pursue and fuck. Stop killing yourself trying to make the impossible possible and gaming that one woman who won’t come around. You have to understand and discern the difference between women trying to seduce you and women trying to tell you to go away. There is a difference, and most of the times men don’t see it. A woman who is trying to seduce you will come around. She will cave to her emotions. She will make efforts to see you. She won’t give you excuses. A woman who wants to rid you of her life won’t tell you outright. She’ll ghost you. She’ll tempt you. She’ll play with your beta ass until you get frustrated and give up. Time to grow up and see the signs for what they are. Women love attention. In fact, women love attention more than they love you. Women are totally willing to make you work for their attention with texts, gifts, and dinners, only to walk away when they get bored with your lame attempts to sleep with her. Women are fueled by it. They don’t care if they leave a warpath of hurt feelings along the way. Women like the illusion of having options. They’d rather make you an orbiter than cut you off completely. It validates her in her mind as well as in front of her friends. Women are ruthless. Women don’t care if you get hurt, as long as they don’t get hurt having to deal with you. Women want you around. You’re fun to play with. But they don’t want your dick. That’s reserved for alphas and Chads. Time to grow up men and see women for what they are. Time to weed out the good ones from the leeches. Time to channel our energies toward women who actually want to fuck us, not just the ones who want us around. If a woman is playing hard to get, move on. Don’t play her game, enter her frame, and waste energy chasing the illusion she is using to toy with you. Cut her out, and move on to worthwhile women.

vengefully_yours · 2018-01-24T20:57:29+00:00

A girl who plays hard to get with me is not gotten. I'm not about to pursue her and go the extra distance just to get some. I'm not in the practice of handing out validation and attention without pussy wrapped around my tiny little cock, and even then I'm sparing with positive commentary.

Bitches get one chance. If they fuck it up, I do not contact them again. There is a university here that gets a new crop of slut in every fall, there is no shortage. Of the 30,000 people who live here, roughly half are female, and they produce a new slut crop every year too.

I've been this way for the entire 30 years I've been fucking sluts, I'm not going to chase her like a lost puppy. I'll simply go find one who is willing to throw down with me when the opportunity presents itself. I seriously have better shit to do with my time than chasing sluts who think playing hard to get makes me want her more, or enough to get free shit from me. The only females who get free shit from me are my daughters. The youngest is a hard core heart eater. You'd like her.

RetiredRedPill · 2018-01-24T17:21:19+00:00

One of the predominant themes of feminism, and terminal progressivism in general, is the divorce of actual desires from stated desires:

1) Stated desire of "enthusiastic consent" when actual desires involve some form of domination up to and including rape fantasies. This is why women give the LMR, they want the man to take charge in actuality, but they publicly say another thing, that they want men to ask for consent at every step of the way (m'lady, may I touch your breast? M'lady, may I take off your panties? M'lady, may I touch your clitoris...) Women don't want this, they just say they do, and to boot they offer actual real-life consequences for giving them what they actually want.

It's no wonder then how unhappy women have become with men. They are training men to do things that women don't like - to essentially be pussies. This isn't rocket science.

2) Stated desire to help disaffected groups (eg, refugees) when the actual desire is to improve the safety and vibrancy of communities. Good luck improving community safety and vibrancy when you are importing young males from shithole 3rd world areas. Gee, what do we think will happen? Should we be surprised when 3rd world male refugees do shitty 3rd world things, especially to women?

3) Stated desire for equal pay for and equal representation of women in the workplace, when the actual desire tends to be to raise children through their formative years. Now, TV and social media raises your kid while both parents practically are forced into the labor market to makes ends meet. And we wonder why kids are such entitled snowflake losers...

4) Stated desire to "raise awareness" for sexual assault via #MeToo hashtags when the actual desire is to gain social currency, fame, and to shame and harm men for awkward advances or similar. The stated desire here is to reduce bad behavior from men, but the actual desire is to more fully control men's behavior through an unaccountable system of belated accusations...

Incidentally this is one reason why progressives increasingly turn to censorship, since their stated ideology is so easily debunked and exposed as fraudulent. Where their fight is lost, they ban the fight... a common theme among oppressive ideologies across time and space.

CosmicSpiral · 2018-01-24T17:46:53+00:00

I've heard the repeated stories growing up regarding husbands and wives or boyfriends and girlfriends that the male in the scenario asked (pestered) the girl 10+ times before she finally went out with him, and now they are happily married or together. Is this just the girls weighing their options before settling down with a provider?

This is resculpting the past to bring it into accord with the present. You will see the opposite during the ugly end of a breakup, when a girl will shockingly claim that nothing good ever happened in the relationship despite obvious examples to the contrary.

A young woman ~~with daddy issues wants a strong-frame, smart/charming/successful/fit male role-model in her life so~~ will be drawn to and fuck alphas

More accurate description.

a business woman or any driven woman hitting her wall will have collected many orbiters (potential providers) around her and finally selects one after being content enough with the provider

Which inevitably leads to regret, resentment, and pining for the past. Career-driven women select the most suitable chump out of a sense of urgency, not desire.

IntensePancakes · 2018-01-24T19:48:12+00:00

There's good perseverance and bad perseverance. Good perseverance happens when a woman is already attracted to you and wants to fuck you. These are things like passing her shit tests such as dealing with logistics, her friends, anti-slut defense, last minute rejection, etc. Basically just holding your frame while she goes through her laundry list of tests to reach that sweet, sweet plausible deniability.

Bad perseverance is continually trying to get a woman to become attracted to you- constantly asking her out, showing off to her, qualifying yourself to her, etc. This never works because it shifts the power balance fully to her. Sure you may eventually get that date or get laid or even get a relationship, but she will never be as attracted to you as she is to someone she had an instant, natural, instinctual connection with. Never. And any day she could snap back to her senses and leave you for the reasons she wasn't attracted to you in the first place.

The balance of attraction should always be, at worst, equal (though as students of RP you should always have the upper hand). If there's no instant connection, move onto another girl. You should always be willing to walk out the door. That is an aspect of the "dgaf" attitude is definitely applicable. And if you're not getting instant connections with a girl, improve your own life mentally, physically, and emotionally before trying to meet women.

420KUSHBUSH · 2018-01-24T17:04:23+00:00

Perseverance for shit testing and may be even when theyre not interested Withdrawing attention when theyre not interested Honestly persistence works for me despite the widely accepted way of handling such situations so I don't know

sleepyweaselisawake · 2018-01-24T19:23:06+00:00

I use the DGAF attitude with all the women in my life. Why? Because it works. If they don't like it and leave they're easily replaced. If they decide to try and be bitchy/bitter to get their way, I don't care. Either they figure out it's not going to work or they leave.

If I'm interested in someone and they're not showing overt signs of interest I move on. Why should I chase when I have options that are basically effortless?

wittymore · 2018-01-24T22:03:50+00:00

Women select the mate with the highest amount of perceived value. If she is looking for a BB, you demonstrate that value through perserverence and agreeability...But is that really where you want to be?

In my opinion "happily married" is a paradox.

When it comes to the short term of getting laid, the value women perceive is correlated directly to how easy it is for you to walk away from them. Thing is this. Be prepared to walk away from women because you value your time and energy, not because it is a passive aggressive way to still get the girl.

Unconscious needs don't alternate between women when it comes to sexual desire, the sooner one loses that illusion the better.

Godskook · 2018-01-24T22:22:12+00:00

There's SO many similarities between employment and relationships it is silly.

Perseverance makes sense for pursuing quality women/employees because a quality person is going to commit to you and enrich your life/business once hired. Perseverance DOESN'T make sense in an environment with high variance in quality or low quality because you're expending tons of effort with little promise that you'll get return on your investment.

In Business, there's a lot of factors that make this much much easier:

Strong contract law preventing companies from getting screwed from a disingenuous employee.
Applicants who are willing to demonstrate their viability with degrees, resumes and other forms of semi-objective measurement.

In Relationships:

Marriage law is a rapidly disintegrating into a cash&prizes-contract for women with almost no protections for men against disingenuous women.
Many women aren't INTERESTED in being good wives/mothers anymore at all. There's far too many who, at best, want an equal-partners housemate while they also work, leaving children as a gratuitous expense if it's an option at all.

Combined, the modern environment simply isn't worth doing highly persevering courtship attempts. You're not being offered much, and you have little assurance that you'll even get as much as you were sold on. It's simply bad business to invest more in a relationship than she has any intention of investing back into the relationship with you.

threshold- · 2018-01-24T23:03:10+00:00

We don't "use it". It's not a technique, it's a mindset. I don't give a fuck

Look, two things. There are guys that don't push hard enough, they take no for an answer. They should persist for it's own sake, not for the women.

Secondly, a man's attraction is like a light switch. It's turned on quickly. Logically it's turned off the same. "Oh she has a boyfriend", "but she said this one thing", "but I made this mistake", then think it's over and turn off the switch. The mindset should always be "I can get her", so we persist with this in mind.

Thin lines; chasing, begging, perceiving her as higher status. This is about self control, cultivating your own power not the pursuit of women.

If you are the one more eager to initiate the relationship, control yourself

TunedtoPerfection · 2018-01-24T23:09:37+00:00

There is a huge difference between a non attractive male pestering a girl consistently until she "gives him a chance" and an attractive male hitting up the same girl a few times and her not being available.

Merwebb · 2018-01-24T23:22:59+00:00

Those guys maybe weren't as happy as you think.

Tales are always tales.

casemodsalt · 2018-01-24T21:07:32+00:00

If you bug anyone enough, they will do something you want.

The entire act of bugging one single woman until she likes you (Futurama) is disgusting to me.

Throwawaysteve123456 · 2018-01-24T23:38:01+00:00

They say they want perserverance because that's what beta's do. They also WANT to reject the guy they actually intend on fucking, but a light rejection, to give plausible deniability. It sort of depends on the context, but both are easily explained.

Honestly, I wish I knew this 10 years ago, I fucked up so many times for this reason.

-Tepes · 2018-01-24T23:52:16+00:00

Would be interested in hearing your thoughts and differing perspectives. Do you use the dgaf attitude on some girls depending on their type while pestering more high value targets during the hunt for a mate/partner? And do your goals/thoughts/perspectives in the pursuit of women change as you are getting ready to settle down after sowing your wild oats?

For what its worth, goes both ways, When I was younger, I would switch between I.D.G.A.F. and a liter mood where in the back of mind I would keep somewhat a maybe Alright I'll G.A.F. / maybe shes slightly different/give her a chance. - I was wrong for the most part, thanks to my dark triad personality disorder women always spill their beans/past/present or I can just see through them and their deal. From Single Chicks Fucking around, Some Respectable Single moms recently seperated now wanting to lock me down, To Sluts who spoke of love while in or just coming out of Long Term Relationships having fucked me or a dozen others in between, they were mostly either piece of shit confused cumbuckets or silly bubbly fuck toys or they were just moderate women after resources. Not Genuine people who could love me as I would wanted to love them. Now dont get me wrong, I am sure there are a few unicorns, sure but I didn't want to look for needles in haystacks.

So as I grew older and accumulated more experience, my perspective/goals/thoughts did change to totally DGAF. I saw myself never really settling down, the option may be somewhere on the table dont get me wrong I am not perfect, we are human, but no, probably not in the current time of the world, maybe with the next generation or two of women that will be different, but for the foreseeable future. Currently as my friend puts it, Shit to Sugger like flies women are, I never stopped looking to sow more wild oats. actually see this whole "done sowing wild oats" is now a female hypergamy thing, I see them mostly as just another girl, just another client, just another whore or whore to be, there is always another one around the corner. Pump Dump, Failures, if they were to settle down and have daughters tomorrow with some poor beta provider with their fake love, in two decades those daughters will have a higher chance of breeding with my likes than these. Body, Time, Career-Finances are top three priority, Women are 4th.. Probably not what you wanted to hear but here is my take on it. All the best with your experience.

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