(23f) Female seducer thinking about approaching random men. What approach would work on you? Negging?

I get bored really, really, freakin easily. I love seducing, but men always fail to keep my interest because they are too damn easy. I want a man who will challenge me. I want someone who will do the push/pull thing with me. I guess I want an alpha with game. But more than that, I want a guy who enjoys the game more than he wants sex. Ultimately, I want a male best friend who is happy to fight me and fuck me. I wouldn't care if he actually 'loved' me, but I think I could have oneitus for such a man. Ultimately, I enjoy stability even with my short attention span.

Assuming such a man exists, which I am not sure he does, he is a rare commodity. And because women are never supposed to directly approach men, I worry I won't be able to sift through enough duds to find him. I mean, men can approach any women they want any time they feel like it. I can only wait to be approached, and I will only be approached when I am smiling, receptive, and making eye contact with strangers, and I usually don't even like to be approachable.

Actually, I completely dislike being purposefuly approachable. Smiling at strangers without saying anything seems incredibly weird to me. I have a bit of social anxiety. I hate it when strangers approach me and say hi. I also hate it when strange men approach me to hit on me outside of a bar. They are usually so...I guess bro-y? And creepy. And unoriginal. The way they look at me makes me feel like trash. I could explain more if anyone who might wants tips.. Anyway, I also hate being cat-called with a passion. To stop actively stop strangers from talking to me, I usually where headphones in public. I also wear the headphones to listen to books on tape, because, like i said: I'm easily bored. I'm going to be joining some clubs soon and getting a new job, but that still doesn't give me the opportunity to meet many new men.

So I'm thinking these are my options:

(1) I should suck it up and stop wearing my headphones in public, because women should not approach men. (2) Tinder/okcupid. I worry about the kinds of guys are potentially on it. I mean, do alpha men with good-game bother going online, when they can simply approach a women when he sees her? (3) I approach whatever hot men I see around and get immediate feedback.

I most like the idea of at least trying to cold-approaching strange hot men. I know I will be nervous as hell, but even if I fail, I am all about improving myself and trying new things. (Plus, when I am in control of who I approach, I might feel shy, but I won't feel social anxiety.)

I have no real idea about how to go about it though. Perhaps negging? Me and my friends downloaded tinder as a joke and quickly matched ourselves with hundreds of mens, regardless of looks. We then proceeded to say respond in the wackiest ways we could think of to the men who sent us messages.

We also sent messages to the best looking guys saying stuff like, "Why are you ignoring me?" We were actively trying to be off-putting in the most subtle way we could. We were completely disrespectful. Totally cocky. The men we sent these messages to were model-quality good-looking. We assumed they were way, way out of our leagues and had only matched us for an ego-boost. However, even the good-looking men responded quite enthusiastically to our "negging." Often they would 'neg' us back. But I refused to meet up with any of them because I thought they were too hot, and our conversations mostly fizzled out because our two-way negging escalated into slight hostility.

Later, me and my friends matched with men we perceived to be nice and not good-looking, but within our leagues. This time, we tried to engage them in normal conversation without negging them because we were actually interested. We were how we are supposed to act when a girl first meets a guy. These conversations were sometimes fruitful, but the men were not nearly as eager when they weren't initially being negged. So negging might work on men in real life too, right?

So assuming I should approach, how what exactly should I say? Should I initially neg or straight up compliment? Should I just hit on them like guys hit on girls? Should I say, "Hey boy. You look hot. You thirsty? Let me buy you a drink." Is there a point where I will push too far and become creepy? I want to use the element of surprise to my advantage, but I don't want to scare them off.

Once I have managed to establish a conversation, I feel confident about normal girl seduction stuff. Also, I am going to get a short hair cut soon. Short hair suits me, but I worry that if I am not forward with men they might dismiss me by default. Other than that, I am not perfect, but I am undoubtedly better-looking than average.

[NOTE: I am already fully aware I could get most guys to fuck me because I have a vagina. My goal here is to find a hot alpha guy who will fight with me and fuck me, so we can live happily ever after in a state of constant sexual tension. I'ma ignore player haters.]

[–]TheSBW 5 points6 points7 points 11 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]ZenonZ3[S] -1 points0 points1 point 11 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]TheSBW 2 points3 points4 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]HeirOfTheSurvivor 0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

I'd recommend reading The Art of Seduction personally. I'm about halfway through it at the moment, and have put it on hiatus as I read The Memoires of Casanova, but the book is like a Bible for seduction.

I, alas, am but at the beginning of my learning curve, but if you truly want to know how to make guys obsess over you, this book is a must. I met a girl a few months ago who ended up dominating my thoughts after a couple of weeks; after starting the book, I realised that she was a textbook example of what the book preached. Turns out she has indeed read it, and knew exactly what she was doing. She hasn't returned my texts since.

You could just gather general experience, and get good at finding men and having short but sweet relationships with them from what you learn in the field, but if you want to know how to make a guy genuinely fall in love with you, unless you want to leave it to chance, the book is an absolute necessity.

Edit: Even if you don't want him to "love" you, it's a fine reference for generally cultivating attraction from the opposite gender.

[–]ZenonZ3[S] -1 points0 points1 point 11 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

Ha! I am reading that right now! Almost done. Mostly very insightful, but it says women should smile, make eye-contact and wait to be approached. That might be the best way, but I don't want to wait. And later on it says some other things that you definitely need to take wit a grain of salt. I read an interview with him, and it became clear to me that Greene is a little bit of a sensationalist. That's what sells.

I've naturally (cause I'm a natural) got everything pretty much down about seducing men after initial contact, but that is a problem for me. I DON'T want men to obsess over me. It's no fun to be obsessed over. I have gotten love but it comes so easy it is almost worthless. There is no challenge.

Keep my female perspective in mind as you learn about seduction. Women want to be seduced! They want a challenge, so they know you are worth it! Never think you are being immoral or manipulative for using seduction, even if you make girls cry. They are adults, and they chose to be seduced, because that is what will make them happy. That girl is not wrong for seducing you. You were happy while it lasted. You knew the risks.

You get through all 7 of the archetypes yet? Any idea what you think will work for you? I'm a natural with coquette tendencies. I'd be wary of trying to be the dandy as a man unless you are already sure of your masculinity. Btw, did she tell you she read it and then cut contact with you? Sounds like an interesting story.

[–]HeirOfTheSurvivor -1 points0 points1 point 11 years ago* (3 children) | Copy Link

Yeah, I'd definitely agree about taking things with a pinch of salt in the books. That's more easily done with a book like, say, 48 Laws of Power. If you live by what that teaches, you'll likely end up quite unhappy.

Yeah, I can understand that actually. Clingy's no fun for anyone, even the clinger. I suppose one thing you could do in that regard is go to places where you're likely to find high-quality males. People who are sure of themselves, and know their way around a woman. Then you can potentially steer the engagement in the direction which you see fit in the long-term. Perhaps people who are likely to come from an abundance mindset, with many women at their disposal, and hence are less likely to cling? In that case, perhaps spotting the right guys at the gym who don't overtly reek of narcissism? Though I don't regularly hit the gym, I expect it would be extremely stimulating for them to have a Siren approach and acknowledge them whilst they flex their muscles. Though I'm highly socially apt, I am still incredibly low-level regarding genuine seduction, so where you would find these people, I am mostly unable to help you with.

Oh, and regarding the down votes on the post, I'd ignore them. There seems to be a below-the-surface hate culture on this sub against women who seek to seduce men, many people here having likely been "heartbroken" in the past. I mean, I technically have too, but I don't judge the seducer for it. I'd much rather learn from them than antagonise them.

Yes, I've read that section, and the Types of Victims. I'm presently reading through the First Phase of the seduction. I'm actually also a Natural, and am cultivating Charmer tendencies, given these have proven highly potent in the past. Regarding Dandy-isms, I've recently chopped off my afro for a buzz cut, and replaced my glasses with contacts (part of my own personal self-improvement project); the most dandy thing I've done is a subtle necklace I got from Tanzania. Dark brown bead necklace with a tooth-like wooden carving in the middle.

Though my personality leads to me being satisfyingly popular, I've been unable as of yet to reliably widen its influence into the romantic domain. I have had many, many opportunities in the past, but have always blown them out with my Antiseducer tendencies every time, mainly stemming from my former insecurities, which I'm now successfully working at negating.

Yeah, following being unwitting seduced by her, she ended up coquetting me a bit too hard, as Greene warns against, and I became disillusioned (basically bored). We hadn't texted in a couple of months, and she texts me out of the blue again to likely attempt to rein me back in. However, when we ran into each other in person, I called her on it (non-accusingly, I hope), and she confirmed my suspicions. I later texted her stating a new-found self-awareness of how I'd been a complete Antiseducer in the past. She texts me back saying that any Antiseducer qualities I had weren't the cause of her not liking me (which I had heard before), but I disagreed, and thanked her for allowing me to realise a great deal about myself following my failed escapade.

As you can probably tell, I wasn't trying to pull any moves here, this was just a sort of end-game for me, and I felt like being honest.

And hence, no texts since. I'll likely see her Lion's Mane hairdo around the library at some point, but, despite being a nice girl, she's not capable of lowering her Coquette shield, and I'm not yet experienced enough to flip the power dynamic in my favour. So I'm leaving this where it presently stands, and working on improving my general seductive ability a day at a time.

[–]ZenonZ3[S] 0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Okay, first off. When I read you had a fro and glasses. I was like:

Dammmnnn. That's so. Fucking. Hot.

A guy with a fro and glasses is exactly my type. Drool. Might be subjective but you should know there is a market for that. To me, men with that combination look intelligent and independent, and like they can be goofy/funny at times and serious at other times. So yeah. Nerd does not equal dandy.

There is nothing inherently feminine about a fro and glasses. And that is coming from someone who hates long hair on men. Curly hair (within reason) can look sensual, wild, and fun. If you rock a short fro and glasses with confidence, without making it seem like you are trying to hide underneath them, its freakin irresistible.

Well actually, disclaimer on the fro: I assumed you are white. If you are black, I think short hair is better because black fros look retro.You should still wear glasses though. Man, I wish all men wore glasses...You know how rare it is for men to walk around in glasses? Look around you. They are unfortunately freaking rare. And the ones who have glasses and are actually confident, take care of their bodies and dress well... You could use it to your advantage. A ex-boyfriend of mine used to send me pictures of him wearing his reading glasses at work but he refused to wear them when we were out and about because he didn't want to look nerdy. (Also, he was half-black and he usually kept his hair nicely cropped.)

But yeah, I guess it depends on the kind of women you are trying to attract. You will certainly attract women like me. My two best friends also have a similar fondness for a man in glasses. We don't look it like nerds, and we are not introverted, but we are attracted to intelligence and wit above all things. I think if you act extroverted and confident, glasses are only a positive bit of peacock feathering to make ladies attracted to intelligence pant after you.

Personally, I don't like the idea of a guy with light skin wearing a necklace. I mean, I'm sure the necklace technically looks cool, but I think a necklace can also look vain or pretentious, unless it reflects something personally relevant to you. However, black men seem to have more freedom to dress well and accessorize than white men do without incurring negative judgements, at least in my limited experience.

I think it is wrong to make the assumption that she 'coquetted too hard' and that she was purposefully coquetting. She's probably a girl I would want to be friends with, but I think you might still be idealizing her a bit too. Honestly, I think it is much more likely that she was bored with you so she just stopped interacting. If she was still purposefully trying to seduce you, she would seen her coquetry failing, and then try a new tactic to pull you after her. She probably texted you again because she was randomly bored too. If she had serious intentions to wheel you back in, and she was as skilled as you seem to think, she could have done it. I have been that girl.

It is a bit brutal to say, but while she is the one girl that gamed you this hard, she has gamed many men. To you she is one of one, and to her you are one or many. She probably didn't care enough about you to keep seducing because you didn't stand out enough from the many. (Man, this sounds depressingly like economics.) You are doing the right thing right now by ignoring her.

Also, there is a very real possibility that she believed her own lies when she said it wasn't your anti-seducer qualities that turned her off. People like to think that they are above disliking people for the wrong reasons, even when confronted with the truth. I mean, most girls still claim and believe the claim that they want a guy who is 'nice to them.' What they want is a man they can respect.

Niceness is false and saccharine. It is no reflection of a person's true character. No one respects niceness. But never forget: women respect kindness. Kindness is a fantastic quality in a man. It is noble and attractive and rare. A kind man understands other people and cares about the world, he is a good father. He is kind to himself as well; he does not let himself be walked over. A nice man is weak, nothing but a people-pleaser. I think reddit seduction does not emphasize this nearly enough. True assholes are not attractive to women with a lick of sense. I like a man with a strong character, not mean one.

I forgot that men can be naturals too. How does that work out? I would think being a natural as a man would have to be pretty subdued, and you wouldn't get the same benefits I do from expressing childlike qualities... I would expect that many natural qualities would backfire for a man. I mean woman are infantilized in american society, so its not too jarring if I have some childlike qualities. Women and men both think I am winsome. But I would expect other men to dislike a natural male? How does being a natural manifest for you? How do men respond?

Also, I do actually think you are probably the kind of guy who could be an attractive dandy, because you have real sense. However, yeah, I think you should step away from that for now and then bring it slowly back in to whatever extent you want, once you are more confident. Women do love men who are comfortable enough having non-manly interests. Pink shirts are also attractive.

[–]HeirOfTheSurvivor 0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Yeah, I'm a black guy. The change wasn't initially to make myself "better looking"; chopping off my hair was originally intensely personal. Most of what I'm doing style-wise is for myself more than anything, and for allowing me to feel better in how I present myself to the world.

Yeah, you're likely right that I simply wasn't attractive to her. Also, she did carry out her little routing to at least a few other guys. When we were talking in the library, this black dude came along, awkwardly said hello, whilst she said nothing and covered her mouth with her hand, after which he said "um, I'll be over there". Ask her what's up, she says "he wanted more but I didn't feel ready blablabla". Couple days later I see him and her working with each other in a private room. She obviously has the guy whipped.

Well, it's nice in that it's just the personality I've grown up with. Unfortunately, it's led to me often being assumed a fool by my peers, and them treating me as the baby of the group. Watching their cognitive dissonance when they see me getting offers from med school or excelling socially can be quite satisfying as a result.

Regarding meeting new people, I'm still learning a lot about making myself truly appealing to the opposite gender; nevertheless, I find my personality has only benefitted me in the past. Any shortcomings regarding furthering things sexually that I have had in the past have simply been due to my own insecurities and self-limiting belief systems. Otherwise, I suppose I have strong Charismatic tendencies when I've forged a good day, which helps to ground my personality rather than having it perceived as too child-like. As previously said, it's mainly the men who assume me a fool, which I have no present quarrel with. This perception will likely cease as I continue my personal development Project.

That's a good way to discern the differences between kindness and niceness. The "nice guy" is certainly praised far too much in our culture; I can't even watch Spider-Man without now seeing what ~~a nice~~ an insecure jack Peter Parker is around MJ :(

Yeah, I've been working to increase how comfortable I am regarding sex. Despite my ambitions, I recently found that I still treated sex as the majority of the population does; something to be embarrassed or even ashamed about. The more I broaden my spectrums psychologically, the more comfortable I find myself in my self-worth, and the more I feel sex-related insecurities sliding away. Never before have I been able to make jokes about being fucked in the ass so fervently.

I have already been brightening up my shirt array. One girl actually complimented me on having the sexual self-assurance to opt for brighter colours which most men would see as "gay". But pink is certainly an option to look at when I next find myself shopping.

[–]ZenonZ3[S] 0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

So I took another look at the section in the Art of Seduction on dandies, and I am thinking more and more that I was off-base in advising you against it. I was projecting my cringing feelings of men I've known who act feminine and pursued me--but the thing about those feminine men, is they did not typically have any masculine qualities, while a true dandy (with elements of "masculine cruelty") would come off more as a man who is comfortable with women than a girly-man. True too, on your hair and glasses. It is more about confidence, so you can make what you choose work either way. While I don't actually see fros themselves as attractive, a man who wears one with confidence could stand out more, and seem more attractive in his confidence to stand out.

Being a natural can be annoying, but it is often better to be seen as nonthreatening to people you are actually smarter than, and I think a natural/charismatic type of doctor (assuming that you want to be a doctor) would inspire the most confidence in people--optimism and conviction. Unless you have a clear idea about why it is so bad, I don't think you should struggle too hard against being childlike. Maybe read John Greene's other books instead, Mastery and 48 Laws of Power, before you make a decision. I'm going to read those soon too. I already read the first chapter or so in each of them. I'm going to finish them after I'm done with How to Win Friends and Influence People by Carnegie. Its weird I always thought such books were total BS, but here I am devouring them.

Making jokes about ass-fuckery does sound like a good idea to become more comfortable around sex. And do you have any close, platonic, female friends who you would never be (and never have been) interested in romantically? If you don't, I think it would be a good idea to get one or two, especially girls who would feel comfortable talking about sex casually with you. The pressure would be off, and you'd get practice and more insight into the female perspective. Plus, women are always happy to have more male friends so making such a friend would be easy. But I'd only befriend a women who already does have true male friends so she doesn't automatically think you are into her. Or a lesbian. Lesbians are a man's best friend.

I think men and women have the most troubles with the opposite sex when they have the fewest platonic relationships with them. My little brother, who is undoubtedly straight, actually has more trouble getting along with other men than he does with women because he grew up with four older sisters beating on him. All his friends are girls, but he has also had girlfriends outside his friend-group. More often than I like to admit, I need to remind myself of my brother and some of the other good men I have known in my life because I easily fall into the trap of stereotyping men's motives and seeing them as one-dimensional...Reading your perspective is really nice. It is so strange that we are all human, and all so similar, and yet there is such a void between the sexes. One unshared chromosome.

True that about Peter Parker! He sure is no Bond. James Bond. See, James Bond is a good-guy, and beautiful women love him, but he isn't exactly boyfriend material. No one would accuse him of being a "nice guy," but no one would ever really call him an a-hole either.

[–]boss413 -1 points0 points1 point 11 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

You have a great attitude about seduction and it's cool that you have such a specific goal. The issue (which you've already identified) is that finding this particular guy (hot, has a huge amount of game, and is interested in using it on you specifically in perpetuity) is going to be tough because there just aren't that many hot guys with a "love of the game" to begin with.

What I'm saying here is that finding a hot guy who will play along with your "feisty" persona is probably not going to be tough--it's a natural part of game. It's the holding of that state that's the sticking point. As /u/HeirOfTheSurvivor suggested, give Robert Greene a read. If you want to maintain that kind of perpetual courtship, you're going to have to cultivate a persona that's addictive, which is no small feat.

[–]ZenonZ3[S] -1 points0 points1 point 11 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

Yep, like I said to him, I am almost done with Art of Seduction. I am going to read the 48 Laws next. The Art of Seduction has actually boosted my confidence a ton, because I already pretty much have used/do use all he said naturally already...

I actually have been toning down my seduction on purpose because I was worried I was being manipulative and hiding my 'true' personality. Now I feel like I can go back to seducing and I won't make me a fake or manipulative.

So yeah. I don't think keeping a man will be a problem for me. And I honestly wouldn't care if he cheats, as long as I don't find out or get an STD.

But finding a man I want to keep seems very difficult. I know "feisty" is part of the game. But so far I have gotten two attractive alphas to want to commit to me. They stopped doing the push/pull thing with me as soon as they wanted commitment, and I got bored. I think Greene says that people are romantics at heart who believe in true love. I suspect that these guys thought love/commitment means you don't need to use game anymore.

I think it is weird that I am the only one who gets bored of having a partner without game. I haven't seen any posts by guys saying that their girlfriends are too boring. But maybe I am extreme. I might get bored too easily and might crave conflict too much. My inborn high need for tension.low boredom threshold is probably what taught me how to seduce naturally without having yet read Greene's book.

I am generally a reasonable person, but I used to pick fights over absolutely nothing with my ex-boyfriend, despite having a technically perfect relationship. He was incredibly handsome and we got along great. I broke up with him after two years together because of the lack of conflict.

I need to find alpha guys who want tension as much as I do and I can only think that approaching as many guys as possible will help me find one. But that might be searching for a needle in a haystack too. Maybe alphas who also have thrill seeking hobbies are the kind I want? I am not actually invested in their looks, I just assumed good-looking men would be more alpha. Perhaps that is wrong?

[–]boss413 1 point2 points3 points 11 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]ZenonZ3[S] 0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

By conflict, I mean continuously running game. I don't want an actual argument where feelings get hurt. I figured calling it conflict meant the same thing. I want a man who can run game with me primarily because I want to have a fun relationship, not a dramatic or serious one.

I am not really looking for intimacy either. I am looking to pick up dudes. Maybe I will have sex with a few if they are hot, even if they have dull personalities. I'm not worried about locking anyone down into a commitment.

However, If I meet someone who can run game with me, I want to be exclusive with him, no matter his job or ambitions, or his thoughts of the future. A man like that could teach me a thing or two, and if I end up heartbroken, it is a a learning experience.

No one has really answered my question about HOW I should cold-approach men. I appreciate the other advice, but that is what I am wondering about. How to make a good impression when approaching? Should he be alone for me to approach? Should I be standing right in front of him? Is offering to buy him a drink or ask for his digits too much as an opener? I would ask ladies but no one does this because it is universally seen as a bad idea. It probably IS a bad idea, but I think I am going to do it anyway, and I want to do the best I can. So what could a strange average looking girl say to you that would make you intrigued with he despite not being a total hot? (Besides the obviously sexual.

[–]boss413 0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

HOW to approach? Well it'd make sense to start off by setting expectations around this persona you're cultivating. Buy him a drink or ask for his number? That's just being nice and asking to fuck (respectively). You'll have to approach in ways that allow you to frame the interaction to have conflict: opinions (brush first or floss first), would you rathers (would you rather fuck your mother in the body of your gf or your gf in the body of your mother), deliberate arguments (he's wearing a UW shirt? "Go Cougs") etc.

Alone or part of a set? The process is pretty much the same, just easier when he's single since you have to integrate yourself into the group (not a problem, they'll probably be psyched to have a cute girl part of their group), but if you want to demonstrate that you're formidable you'll have to dominate the conversation and be challenging in the same way male PUAs do: disagree, challenge, freeze out, neg, playfully shove, etc. They'll probably play along to get what they want.

And there's the bigger issue (which you've already encountered): dudes will accept the kind of abuse you're talking about until they get sex, then they'll start negotiating for the relationship they want (which is obviously variable). That's why this thread was pointing you to Robert Greene--approach will be far less important than the combination of finding the kind of dude who gets off on the kind of conflict you're looking for, and your ability to maintain that frame.

Title	(23f) Female seducer thinking about approaching random men. What approach would work on you? Negging?
Author	ZenonZ3
Upvotes	0
Comments	14
Date	May 9, 2015 4:52 PM UTC (11 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/seduction
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/seduction/comments/35eout/23f_female_seducer_thinking_about_approaching/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/seduction/23f-female-seducer-thinking-about-approaching.1387893 https://theredarchive.com/post/1387893

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