Hey /r/seduction! tehichigo and I have decided to team up and provide some thoughts and expertise on common issues concerning social circle pickup in a high school setting on a weekly basis. We'd love to spark some discussion with some food for thought.

Who the hell is tehichigo?: I'm 20 years old, Korean raised American, studying in Australia. I learned pickup simply by reading one concept at a time and immediately practicing it in field, and it has improved me as a person to the point that I want to share what I'm good at with anyone receptive. I still apply everything I learned about social game on a day to day basis, as I go to a small university.

Who the hell is DutchPUA?: I'm 18 years old, Dutch, and just entered university. A couple of years ago I was a total chump and social outcast. At some point I discovered pickup (through my dad, hah!), and I turned my life around, however cheesy that might sound to you. I started lifting weights, became more outgoing, learned to talk to people, and soon became a much happier and fulfilled person.

Let's not waste any more time, shall we? This week's question:

"How honest should I be while running my game?"

Please be mindful that this is geared towards social circle game and may not be applicable to night game philosophies.

DutchPUA's thoughts:

Lying is a habit for most people. It ranges from occasionally telling half-truths that make reality just a little bit prettier than it is to coming up with a completely bullshit life story. People don't act the way they feel, and many fears and insecurities originate from this. There are different kinds of lying; you can tell some bullshit story to someone you meet on the street, or you can lie to yourself on some fundamental level, which really is a bigger issue.

Say, you meet a pretty girl. You're attracted to her, but are afraid to make a move. You talk to her all the time, do everything she asks, listen to her whining about other guys... See where I'm going with this? You enter the dreaded 'friendzone'. But what exactly went wrong? You lied about your intentions. You want to kiss her/fuck her/girlfriend her, but you don't, because you're too afraid of getting rejected. This is a good example of someone lying to themself. You don't want to just be her friend, but you're acting like you do.

Obviously, it's scary to make a move. Hitting on a girl out of the blue, telling someone you're into them, going in for a kiss. These are things that would make many guys piss their pants. But the thing is, if you want to be honest to yourself, you HAVE to do these things! It can be frightening as hell, and you can get painfully rejected, but in the end it's better to have tried than living with the regret of not doing anything at all.

On the topic of honesty, I'd also like to add something about openers. Many people use indirect openers when approaching a girl. The classic opinion opener "who lies more, men or women" is a typical example. The good thing about openers like these is that it's very easy to walk up to a girl and start a conversation like this. The problem is that you're not actually communication your intentions. You're talking to her because you're attracted to her and want to get to know her, so why not be totally honest and open about that? When you do that, you start using direct openers.

"Hi, I thought you look cute and just had to meet you. I'm Dutch." This approach is way ballsier and scarier to pull off, but it instantly shows her that you're confident enough to do this kind of thing. It's also a good way to weed out girls that totally aren't attracted to you, because you'll hear it within 10 seconds instead of talking about unrelated bullshit for half an hour.

But being honest isn't something you should do just in pickup, do it in every aspect of your life. People will trust you more, you'll attract people who can be trusted... All in all, your life will be a lot more enjoyable if you're willing to be completely open and honest about yourself.

tehichigo's thoughts:

Honesty is a pretty difficult issue to handle while running pick up. Depending on your confidence levels, you can get away with full-blown deceit during typical night game one night scenarios, but in social circle game (the majority of interactions in high school) you definitely can NOT be entirely dishonest. Let’s always remember that above all else, women (and people in general) like genuine men. In a sea of insecure students, being a genuine man around as a source of stability is incredibly attractive.

Example: a friend and I were taking bets on who would shack up with a particular girl first (boys will be boys). He tries to be this social chameleon to conform to what HE BELIEVED to be compatible with the girl. I went in with a normal push pull approach as an opener, and incorporating cocky funny teasing at every interaction. My approach revealed myself as who I am: a high energy, fun guy to be around at any time of day. This approached built comfort and rapport extremely quickly. His approach changed on a very basic level every time he talked to her, leading to an inability for him and her to connect on any level, resulting in deservedly low feelings of comfort and rapport. The result couldn’t have been more predictable. When I asked the girl during some pillow talk about why she chose me over him, she said “Because I don’t know who he is. He changes, sometimes he’s a real person, sometimes he’s not. Put yourself in my shoes: would you hook up with a girl with that many faces?”

Let’s change gears and take a look at the typical social environment in high school: groups or “cliques”. Everyone in high school belongs to a group in one way or another, or floats like a social butterfly between groups. These groups are altogether a community comprised of vastly different individuals and upbringings, likes and dislikes, turn ons and turn offs. You as an individual contribute to a group and a community through your frame, i.e. how you project yourself to the social environment in which you belong. This is where dishonesty comes in: many AFCs and wannabes lie and embellish their life experiences or sexual conquests, whereas those that are getting laid may lie to discourage rumors about themselves. My advice? Fucking don’t. Don’t lie, don’t spout bullshit, and above all else, be consistent with your frame.

Why? Why not lie to get a quick lay? Why not lie to help raise your social value and demonstrate your higher value compared to the competition? Once you put a crack in your story, a lie to cover up a vulnerability, it modifies your frame. Example? My first week in university I met a guy who pretended he was some kind of world wide traveler who had seen it all. I could see him sweating under his facade of worldly knowledge; it was obvious to me that he had barely traveled out of his state. He eventually made up an entire story about visiting Frankfurt, Germany, and researched local hotels and hot spots so he could claim that he had been there. One fundamental lie changed his frame so much that he had to put in so much time and effort to keep it functional. You’ll need to start covering for your lie so your frame stays consistent. But guess what? The modified frame is not who you originally are. You’re not going to be able to act as if you have that full experience simply because an experience you didn’t actually have cannot have any measurable effect on you. Your frame will wobble, bend, and crack at one point, and any social growth you’ve accomplished on this fucked up frame isn’t applicable to you, because once a liar is stripped of his accustomed lies and faux experiences, he is at his core a weak, insecure being. There is no lower social pariah than a fanciful liar bullshitting to make friends and hook up.

This isn’t to say that you can’t tell playful white lies. I may have lost count of how many women I’ve told that I’m a virgin, or that I’m a good boy, just because that’s part of how I run my game. Complete, strict adherence to honesty clashes directly with cocky funny teasing styles, which is what high energy day game thrives on. However, omission is a bit of a gray area. On one hand, it can be a struggle staying honest when a moment of truth question pops up (any time your target has a chance to create an impression of you). On this, we can go back to holding your unshakeable frame. For example, I run my social game with a playful yet discretionary attitude (bitches love discretion). If a target asks me something like “did you hook up with X last night?”, I’ll run some cocky funny routines (“yeah, and she brought three stripper friends!”), but ultimately end up with an omission line (“gentlemen don’t kiss and tell”). Omission lines give you an out from a potentially awkward situation as well as keep you in your honest, genuine frame. Yes, it’s a moral gray area, but hey, nobody’s perfect. If you’re comfortable with omission, it’ll save your ass more times than you’d like to think.

Oh and the friend zone shit that plagues half of the people reading this? That girl you want to hook up with but can’t because you ended up in the friend zone? You’re there because you either weren’t honest with your intentions when you met, or aren’t being honest to what you really want.

TL;DR

  • Don’t tell fundamental lies that require you to modify your frame

  • Take it easy: being honest makes life easier, and you'll have to work less for each interaction

  • Role swap: would you spend your time with someone who changes on a day to day basis?

  • Being genuine, honest, and consistent is extremely attractive

  • Being honest will benefit you from an internal standpoint

Thanks for reading guys! If you have any questions, comments, or just want to talk, hit up the comment box. We're here to talk!