~ archived since 2018 ~

I think I failed miserably

Complex-Injury1832

September 11, 2021

7 upvotes

/r/seduction

I went out to a mall with two friends of mine and we had planned to do cold approaches. Almost four hours of roaming around and eating alongwith chickening out endless times. Everytime a girl or a group of girls passed by, my heart started racing and I couldn't do it. Worse even, we laughed about passing up every opportunity and I made excuses every time.

We just kept discussing openers and never applied any of them. It was kinda established that I would have to be the one approaching and they were there for support. But at the time of execution, this made me rationalize not doing it because they weren't as well.

Except for one time when we were playing table tennis in the huge sports store and a girl was watching us play. I asked her what was up and talked for about 25 minutes while playing table tennis as she stood by the side watching. I broke the touch barrier if a side hug and a handshake counts. It felt easy because she carried the weight of the conversation equally if not more and asked for my insta. Honestly, I could have gotten a date but I wasn't very into her so I didn't ask(yeah, sorry for being picky). But I didn't count it as a cold approach because I didn't have to go up to her.

The score remained zero imo and I'm scared to do anything again coz I'm pretty sure the friends aren't coming back for a second attempt.

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Post Information

Title	I think I failed miserably
Author	Complex-Injury1832
Upvotes	7
Comments	15
Date	September 11, 2021 5:39 AM UTC (4 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/seduction
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/seduction/comments/pm1l6e/i_think_i_failed_miserably/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/seduction/i-think-i-failed-miserably.1276331 https://theredarchive.com/post/1276331

Comments

[–]Shneker 3 points4 points5 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]TheTruth221 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]OneThousandYardStare 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (12 children) | Copy Link

I've been operating in my PUA community for over a decade and I say that not to try and sound impressive or anything but because I want you to know that I have a lot of experience in the exact situation you found yourself in. I am my group's designated ice breaker and although I revel in the role, it does present unique challenges that others might not fully understand.

First of all, if you learned anything at all during this whole episode then its a resounding success. If your friends haven't already congratulated you for just getting out there then I will. Good job brother.

I won't go beyond the scope of your post which was mainly about failure BUT if you want some advice on being a good icebreaker and some tips on being more successful then I'll gladly detail that. ALSO if you want to read my community's literature on opening sets I think it would benefit you tremendously.

Beyond that I just want you to know that you didn't fail. You grew. I'm impressed, your friends should be too, and it sounds like there was a girl that was as well. Good job brother.

[–]Complex-Injury1832 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (11 children) | Copy Link

[–]OneThousandYardStare 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

[–]Complex-Injury1832 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]OneThousandYardStare 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]OneThousandYardStare 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]OneThousandYardStare 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Pt 1/3

Chapter 8: Sets and opening

We are at crucial juncture now. Once we have all of our ducks in a row, our social network is in order, our SI is paying off the very first step to actually meeting women is to pick one out and introduce yourself. If it sounds simple its because it is. It is one of the defining features of hook up culture: meeting new people or having completely random encounters. But for some reason this seems to be the step that causes the most apprehension for people. There is some emotional block that not only hinders our ability to do this correctly but might prevent us from doing it at all! I’ll walk through the steps of identifying targets and introducing yourself in this chapter but I want there to be a basic understanding that this step is simple as pie. It is absolutely no sweat. Don’t give it a second thought or you’ll start to become your own worst enemy. Have you ever cold opened a set? Just spotted a girl and walked up to her unannounced and tried to seduce her? How did it go? How did you feel while you were doing it? For many guys the experience is characterized by overwhelming fear, apprehension, self doubt and embarrassment. Although these feelings are unproductive and overblown the truth is that they are not completely misguided. Its difficult to open a set especially when one does not know how to or is ill equipped and under prepared. We instinctively know that, which explains our uncomfortable disposition. This is a natural state for a lot of guys and we consider it the first tier of icebreaking. Its characterized mostly by fear and doubt. Guys in the first tier will often never walk up to a set and open it. In the common imagination first tiers are the sheepish nice guy that probably has a good heart but is terrified of getting it stepped on. They are often portrayed as nerds with thick coke bottle glasses and a stutter, mild mannered and soft spoken. The truth, however, is that anyone can be first tier. Even macho tough guys exist in the first tier and instead of being able to overcome their hesitation of talking to a girl you'll find them outside of the bar trying to start a fight. If you are in the first tier we've gotta get you out. First tier may seem like an inescapable prison but the reality is, first tier is the absolute easiest to break away from.

Moving from first tier to second tier

How do you escape this bottom tier hell? Its so simple it'll make you laugh. The ease with which one can escape the first tier can be contributed to the fact that the first tier is a prison of one's own construction. It is purely a mental block. Its fear that keeps us here in this pit. Fear of rejection. Of embarrassment. All you need to do is remind yourself that there is absolutely nothing to be lost and everything to be gained by talking to that pretty girl. Go up and say hey, introduce yourself, tell her you think her dress is pretty and you want to buy her a drink. That's the goal. No matter if she says yes, no or screams for you to get the hell away from her, you've succeeded. You're the man and you should be proud of yourself. A proper wingman will be there to help you and provide support and a good entourage will flood you with high fives for merely having the balls to walk up to that girl. Vice Versa if you are someone's wingman, then provide them with support and if someone in your entourage goes up to break ice make sure you congratulate him no matter the outcome of the interaction. I've seen guys get torn down and made fun of by their friends for getting rejected and it is one of the most toxic things an entourage can engage in. So in short, just go do it. Who cares about the outcome? Rejection is part of the game. If someone tries to sell you a method that guarantees you'll never be rejected then they are selling you snake oil. The stakes are so low its laughable. You won't go to prison, you won't be sentenced to death. If you get rejected you'll probably never even see that girl again. Even in rejection you gain valuable insight and experience that makes you better. Its a win-win situation. There's also the very real possibility that she'll be into it. No matter what happens you're a legend. Your friends will be proud of you and look up to you for your courage. You see how easy that was? Now its on to the second tier.

Second tier and how to get there

So after a while you'll notice how crowded the second tier is. This is where most guys naturally end up and then stay for the rest of their lives. Second tiers are so prevalent. Second tier is characterized by guys who might still be cautious and a bit nervous about opening sets but will do it from time to time anyway. These are the guys that might need someone to dare them to go talk to a group of girls that they want to go talk to but don't have the courage to do so. These guys may have some hokey pick up lines in their back pockets they learned in the frat house. The difference between first tier and second tier is that second knows you need to play to win. They haven't completely shaken those feelings of hesitation and might need a shot or two in order to muster up the courage to go talk to a girl but they will indeed talk to that girl.... sometimes. I've seen people skip tier 2 altogether and go straight to tier 3 but its not common. Its a natural progression on your way towards ice breaking enlightenment. The reason that they are still affected by those negative feelings that discourage us from opening a set is because they haven't fully implemented the method. They instinctively know that they aren't the best version of themselves and are presenting an inferior product to the girl. No matter how much you've internalized the fact that this is all a low stakes game and rejection means nothing you won't be able to completely shake those negative feelings and achieve the proper confident demeanor if you aren't at your best. If you're out of shape and dressed like a slob then you know you're playing down already. If you don't have a strong social network, a good entourage and a skilled wingman to help you signal your social value then you know you are at a disadvantage. You need to invest in S.I. So that you are in great shape and looking good. You need to build your social network so your stock is high. You need to work with your wingman and study technique so you feel confident in your abilities. Once you have all this accomplished you'll find yourself moving into the third tier.

[–]OneThousandYardStare 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

pt 2/3

Third Tier

You know a third tier when you run into one. Its like watching a fish in water. These guys have it all sorted out. They are firing on all cylinders and something about their mere presence impresses people. They have confidence in themselves because they've worked hard and have earned that competence. Third tiers aren't afraid to go open a set. They can't wait to open a set. They revel in the challenge and the opportunity to put their skills to the test. In fact, third tiers delight in opening so much that they will often go and flirt with women they aren't even interested in just for entertainment. Anyone is a target for a third tier. They are machines. James Bond is a classic third tier. The charm is ever present. He just can't turn it off. The defining feature of a third tier is that they have replaced those feelings of fear and nervousness with confidence and eagerness by way of self actualization. They know how good they are and they are excited by it. There are shadow third tiers, guys who have a load of undeserved self confidence and aren't afraid to hit on chicks purely because they have very little self awareness but this isn't what I'm describing. The real deal is earned.

Tier 4 and optimization

For a long time the PUA community believed that tier 3 was the peak. However a higher plateau has been revealed. Tier 4 is about optimization. There is a problem with Tier 3 that isn't very obvious at first. Think back to the lesson on friendgirls and how they can introduce you to more women, give great referential thickness and even act as a specialized wingman in many situations. Well tier 3 doesn't provide any space for friendgirls because it treats everything as a target. True enlightenment comes when you realize that you should up your standards and then only engage girls you are truly interested in. Forgoing a sexual encounter with a girl you are less than thrilled about will payoff if you can make a friendgirl and get introduced to her friends and reap the other benefits of a friendgirl. There is also the opportunity cost of spending your time hitting on a girl you're not interested in instead of searching for one you are interested in. There's only so many hours in the night, how are you going to spend them? Just because an opportunity presents itself doesn't mean you SHOULD take advantage of it. And don't forget that sleeping with one girl can preclude you from sleeping with others if they are in the same friend group for example, or if other girls see this and consider you a “fuck boy” or a lothario. Once you realize this then you begin to optimize. How high you set your standards is an adjustment that you have to play around with until you find the perfect balance. This is when you go from playing checkers to playing chess. You'll sacrifice a pawn for a queen any day. Welcome to tier 4. Its defined by a higher set of standards and an understanding of long term optimization. Not every girl is a target. Its okay and even beneficial to cultivate platonic relationships with women. Its okay to pass up easy prey in search of higher quality quarry.

Opening a Set

So once we've reached tier 4 how do we go about actually opening a set? There's a plethora of variables that determine that answer so no one algorithmic, one size fits all answer will help you out in this situation. There is one main, underlying principle however: Opening a set relies on your ability to create a social interaction (usually initiation of conversation) in an organic and engaging way. The key word here is “engaging”. When you begin the interaction you want to capture her interest or make her feel compelled to respond and keep talking to you. Organic is second. There are outrageous ways to grab someone's attention and I've seen very unique and singularly talented PUA's try some truly out of the box techniques but one usually wants the interaction to feel so natural she hardly notices the insertion of your presence into her life. Its not forced.

[–]OneThousandYardStare 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Pt 3/3

So lets examine how strangers meet organically in the wild. There are rules in regular social interaction that necessitate the introduction of strangers in normal society. When these situations arise it doesn't feel forced or awkward but rather comfortable. That's the frame we want. We don't want to meet someone and be off-putting. Can you think of a situation where introductions feel natural? The most common by far is the introduction of two strangers by a mutual friend. When a mutual friend introduces you to a stranger it is extremely organic. There is a referential buff there and it feels almost effortless. That's why we focus on building social networks.

But that is a special case. Often times there won't be a mutual acquaintance to rely on. So now, just as an exercise, lets think of times when people would appreciate the intervention of a complete stranger. One I always think of is if I drop something important. When a stranger comes up to me with my wallet or something (god forbid) and says “here did you drop this?” I'm overcome with gratitude and relief. Another time is when I am in trouble maybe I'm hurt. Or how about lost? So you see there are tiny cracks of opportunity where meeting strangers is a very pleasurable experience. But how does that help us? Are we waiting around for a girl to drop her clutch and run it back to her? No. This exercise is to get you thinking about when and what kinds of moments are opportune to cold introduce yourself. Or better yet, how to create those moments. For example, a great ice breaker that works spectacularly when barhopping is the “I'm lost” opener. Imagine you're on the street outside a strip of bars and you spot a set you want to open. Just go up to them and with a slightly embarrassed smile tell them that you are looking for such and such a bar. When they reply “Oh we know that bar its right over there” ask them if they want to come with and grab a drink on you for helping out. So you see you've engineered a situation that takes advantage of the rules in polite society that govern the meeting of strangers. One of the classics is Mystery's (the west coast PUA) “girls fighting outside” ice breaker. He recommends, when walking into a bar or club, to come in with a flabbergasted look on your face and say to the first set you see something to the effect of “Holy shit did you see those girls fighting outside?!” and then start conversation from there. The set's interest will immediately be piqued. You're taking advantage of people's inclination to want to hear about outrageous things happening especially when its happening very near them. These “in's” are everywhere. Imagine you see a girl wearing a shirt with your alma mater on it. BAM, you've got an in: “Hey did you go to Stanford too?” If she says yes then chat her up. If she says no then ask her where she did go. Once you sit down and think about it, all types of situations pop into your head. After a while you begin to feel when its alright. Not just how to open but also the moment when opening is ideal. You spot small opportunities, maybe you both are standing in line for the bathroom or waiting for a drink at the bar. Sometimes you can't even explain why its okay at this particular time. Its a level of social acuity that comes with a lot of practice. My advice is that you DO NOT err on the side of caution. Let there be false positives. Leave no meat on the bone. Don't second guess yourself. You want this process to be less cerebral and more instinctual. Don't think about it too much. Don't sit there and plan out every little detail. These moments are fleeting and you must strike as they present themselves. Also it becomes easy to talk yourself out of it. A good idea is to have an opener already on your mind when you get into a setting. For example when I step out of a bar I make up my mind, before I even see a set, that if I do want to open I will open with the “I'm lost” technique. And don't just wait for these opportunities to present themselves, engineer them. Bypassing the rules of social interaction that preclude strangers from talking to one another is just the first aspect of a successful open. The other, and perhaps more important, element is be engaging. You have to hold her interest in a positive way. If you are boring and repulsive it doesn't matter how punctual your timing was or how seamless your introduction was. You have to hold her attention and make her want to interact with you. This is much trickier and, truth be told, a significant portion of this relies on the set's mood, experiences, tastes, situation and personal disposition. However, there are some characteristics one can strive for that are nearly universally engaging. Lets go over some obvious ones first. The first thing that comes to everyone's mind is looks. A woman will likely be more interested in a handsome guy than an ugly guy. I mean even a total snack could mess it up if his conversation skill are terrible enough but you get the picture. This is so intuitive its nearly useless. What good does it do us? Well it illustrates a point. The point is that we don't have complete control over our looks, some guys will be better looking than others, but we do have a SOME amount of agency if we do things like work out, eat correctly, and dress well. We can make ourselves more attractive. Self Investment! Self investment will make you more engaging. When you look good you feel it. You have more confidence. This is instinctual. Also if you invest in learning you can become a better conversationalist. Before we get into other techniques I want to impress upon you that these self investment techniques will make ambient you more engaging. Without doing anything special if you are well invested then you will be more engaging overall. This includes finding your charisma. Please please please self invest. Moving on, S.I. Is an admittedly boring way increase your appeal. What else can we do? Well let me ask you a question: what do you think is more engaging? A question or a statement? Both of course can be engaging but by nature a question engages someone more because it begs a response. It is calling upon then to do something, to engage with you. Its the same reason that people zone out when they are getting lectured. Its a passive activity. Asking someone a question is inherently more engaging. Especially if its asking for their opinion. You'll find that not only does everyone have an opinion but they love giving theirs. Especially if its a topic they find interesting. Its difficult to know what someone will be interested in but there are safe guesses. For example, more people watch game of thrones than follow Hungarian politics so a person is more likely to want to share their opinion on Jon Snow's death and rebirth than Viktor Orban's attack on the hungarian judicial system. Of course randomly bringing up game of thrones to a girl in a bar without any segway will seem like a non sequitur but you get the point. Lets examine this classic icebreaking wingman play called the “fake argument”. The “Fake argument” play is a way to open a set with the help of a wingman. It involves creating a fake disagreement and then asking the target to give their opinion on the matter. Usually my wingman and I walk up to a set and say something to the effect of “I'm sorry to bother you but my friend and I are having a disagreement and we would like a woman's perspective to settle the argument.” She obliges and then you tell her how you have a mutual friend that moved in with his girlfriend a while back but now they are broken up despite still living together. Our friend is getting back out on the dating scene now and we were arguing over whether or not its okay for him to bring a girl back home with him.” Now you can vary this in all types of ways from how long the couple was together to how long they've been broken up or even why they broke up but in the end the girl will give you her opinion. Make sure you and your wingman pick different sides of the argument before you ask the girl. And then let conversation flow from there. After you guys have wrestled with the question for a while ask her if shes ever lived with an ex or what she thinks about moving in with a boyfriend or whatever.

[–]OneThousandYardStare 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

So the Icebreaker is a unique calling and I've kind of settled into that role in my community. I struggle in other areas (for instance closing because I lose interest easy and I have so much fun opening that I want to move on to the next set. Lol its almost like a gamblers mentality, maybe the grass is greener at another bar) but I really shine when it comes to opening. This is mainly because I have properly dealt with the fear that naturally comes when approaching a girl. Once you examine it logically the fear makes no sense and you can just discard it. Plus if you have a good wingman and entourage they will commend you for just stepping up to the plate, whether you succeed is immaterial. Most of the time you won't. I mean if you bat .300 in the MLB youll get into the hall of fame lol. So drop the fear.

Another big help is to self invest. This is basically a process where you work on yourself so that you become the best version of yourself. It sounds really self-helpy but its great advice. For instance, if you get in shape and look good then youll be more confident and youll be less afraid to break ice. ALSO if you are in shape and looking good youll notice your success rate goes up.

Charisma is almost always the hallmark of a good icebreaker. Charisma is tricky to pin down but we have a saying "sincerity is the essence of charisma". Talking loudly and gesturing strongly is usually associated with charisma but this is misguided. Charisma is when people can tell that you truly believe what you are saying. When you look at MLK Jr give his "I have a dream" speech, you can tell he truly believes what he is saying. Humans are great at detecting fakers. There are all sorts of micro facial muscle that are involuntary and only flex when we truly smile, for example. When you fake smile those things dont happen and people can detect that. So its better to have never smiled at all because you fall in this weird uncanny valley. Don't overthink all this just suffice it to say that an icebreaker is in touch with his honest feelings and sincerely emotes them which leads to charisma. Its hard to force yourself to honestly experience this or that specific emotion but you can start to experience more positive, attractive emotions through things like self investment. Being in good health. Getting enough sleep. Having deep and meaningful and positive relationships with people in your friend group.

You are the tip of the spear and you should revel in it. Your wingman and entourage should likewise value and appreciate the work you do.

The literature I sent helps get you acquainted with some practical strategies that you can employ but in summation opening is usually categorized as a way to circumvent social norms that prevent strangers from talking in a socially acceptable and welcome way. The excerpt I sent can help get you started but if you like what you read I can send you more. Be creative and you can find a myriad of ways to break ice, be fearless and you can make those ideas work.

If you ever need me just reach out to me, I feel a special comradery and brotherhood with fellow icebreakers. We are a special breed and can be proud of just accepting the responsibilities associated with it.

[–]Complex-Injury1832 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]OneThousandYardStare 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

No problem brother Im happy to help and I'm impressed you are putting in the work to achieve your goals! So up front its always more advantageous to have a wingman with you. Think about basketball. Playing one on one is fun but there are a bunch of moves you can't do without a partner, like the alley oop or the pick and roll. It opens up so many things for you. Obviously we have tons of theory on how to approach solo and sometimes youll have to do it. Having said that you shoul dbe careful because outnumbering a girl tremendously might make her feel uncomfortable. If its a single girl then three is pushing it. If its a set of two or more than you have more leeway.

When taking down large sets what we find effective is to open then pair off and each one tries to focus in on a single girl in that set. That doesnt mean you cant talk to the group or treat it like its a group thing but when you start to escalate make sure you have a target in mind. We have wingman plays for large sets if youre interested and I can expound on those if thats what your interested in. But one of the things we always say is that "single player is a myth" its always an endeavor that involves multiple people and your wingman is one of the most important factors. If you are interested in our literature lemme know.