My Problem with Pickup

whoizz · 2015-10-30T14:35:53+00:00

I found that pick-up has made me more insecure and more socially anxious.

I think you're in the minority here.

A lot of the pick-up techniques that I have learned are pretty sleazy to say the least, but that's my opinion

So it's sleazy to allow someone to be comfortable enough around you, having barely just met eachother, to have sex with you? To allow women to have sex without shaming themselves because the rest of society views casual sex for women as a bad thing? Let's let the women make these choices.

Luckily I found that by having respect for myself and aiming to become a better version of myself, I find that I can have more meaningful connections - with both men and women.

This is recommended to literally every single person who posts here asking for help. I'm not joking. It's always, "You can never be good at seduction if you are not happy with yourself." You'll see it over and over again.

And another thing.. With pick-up, I realised that we are too focused on the outcome. Whether that's getting the girl's number or getting laid. We tend to forget that we are talking to human, not an object.

Well, that's just wrong. Again, every single post stresses outcome independence. Because we train ourselves to be confident and assertive all while enriching our own lives, we automatically be come more attractive. Not just to women, but to all people. We make friends more easily. We can say no to someone when they have an unhealthy attitude and not worry because our lives don't revolve around other people. And before you say, "But, seduction is all about other people!" -- it's not. It's about you and becoming happy with your life. I've never hooked up with a girl that I didn't have at least some emotional or intellectual connection with.

Schtemich · 2015-10-30T18:04:27+00:00

'Pick-up' has a sleazy sheen to it, granted - the name itself paints a picture of shark-like lady-hunters zeroing in on prey. Many PUAs doubtlessly express themselves in shallow, objectifying terms; focusing on mechanics, and, as you say, ignoring the essential human qualities of those they seek to seduce.

I am not about to deny that. However, I would suggest that, in your acknowledgement of the bigger moral picture, you're failing to notice the inherent strengths of the mechanical, objective approach that this industry has brought to an otherwise confusing, emotive area of life.

I love a good analogy, so bear with me. In the 1500s, Machiavelli wrote 'The Prince' in an effort to describe what works in the sphere of politics and governance. He deliberately set aside any attempt at making a moral critique - he made no comment about how a leader "should" be, or what a "good" leader is - instead he analysed hundreds of statesman from throughout history on the pure basis of what they achieved and how they did it. His analysis was empirical, and as scientific as possible. That's why it was so groundbreaking: someone dared to abandon their preconceptions and look at the world with daring realism.

The pickup industry interrogates the concept of attraction with a similar daring realism. Our cherished understandings of love, romance, boy-meets-girl, relationships, finding 'the one' and so on, are shaped throughout our childhoods - not by empirical experience, but by clichés, tropes and stereotypes, by advertising, movie story arcs, and the covers of magazines. By song lyrics. It is no wonder so many of us wander into adulthood with no clue as how any of this stuff transpires in real life. In movies the most moral character gets the girl. The real world has no duty to follow the rules for wholesome storytelling.

That's why pickup, or better yet, 'an objective study of attraction' feels uncomfortable. It's a deconstruction of something precious, it runs contrary to simpler, more appealing beliefs that are nestled deep inside our pysches. We all like to believe our personalities are snowflakes, gloriously unique and possessing unlimited free will. We're not. That's why advertising works, because, actually, we're all wired in a similar way. Principles of attraction are no different. So why not study them?

I don't want to be the ostrich that shoves its head in the sand, telling myself I'm special, thinking in terms of what "I deserve" rather than what "I can do". Sure there are some specifics in the world of pickup that I'm not a fan of - peacocking for example - but I recognise that it works and I applaud the guys that had to look like fools to prove it! I pick and choose the things that work for me, but I'm very grateful for the wealth of knowledge at my disposal that pick-up has created. It has improved my dating life, it has won me dates and girlfriends.

You can choose to learn from pick-up or not. I recommend you do take advantage. It's been vigorously tested after all.

PS. A note on negging. Critics of pick-up tend to fixate on this. Before pick-up was a thing, this was just a part of WIT. Negging isn't new. If someone has a high opinion of themselves and is used to receiving compliance from everybody they meet, then a throwaway comment meant to burst their bubble is one's intellectual duty! Pick-up recognises that doing this has implications on attraction, which is certainly interesting (thanks pick-up!). Read Jane Austen. Everyone's always negging everyone else! And this is celebrated romantic literature, folks.

CuntyMcFagNuts69 · 2015-10-30T15:55:05+00:00

Found the white knight. Be a fucking man

Transmigratory · 2015-10-30T16:31:28+00:00

The thing with pick up is, you should really work on your inner game (your self concept and how you view/value yourself) BEFORE you work on your outer game.

Remember, it isn't necessarily what you say, but HOW you come across when you're saying it.

Turlast · 2015-10-30T16:34:00+00:00

There are indeed a lot of "instructors" who teach guys to manipulate and be scumbags overall. Never got that feel from Seddit. Mostly everything here is geared towards making you become a better man than you were previously.

VIICHYVALOIS · 2015-10-30T14:41:08+00:00

OP is a bitch lol

Title	My Problem with Pickup
Author	TheMistryWriter
Upvotes	0
Comments	14
Date	October 30, 2015 2:20 PM UTC (10 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/seduction
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/seduction/comments/3qubkk/my_problem_with_pickup/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/seduction/my-problem-with-pickup.1396772 https://theredarchive.com/post/1396772

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