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Question for You All

Jdaddyk07

October 22, 2021

7 upvotes

/r/seduction

Alright boys,

So here's the deal. I have spent the better half of 15 years trying to learn how to "pick-up" women. I first got into it when I was in middle school and that MTV show "The Pick-Up Artist" was on. I used to be kind of a chubby kid in school who wasn't popular and didn't get much female attention - always had to work for it. I was so interested in learning how to talk to women, now in my late twenties I have been a career sales man for the last 11 years. And, make a living talking to people.

I'm not going to pretend to be an "expert seducer" as here I am single in my late twenties...BUT I have built relationships with women across just about ever medium: meeting online, meeting in person, meeting via cold text, dating apps, have dated 5 women from different nationalities, etc. I usually have 2-3 women I talk to at a time (which to be honest is why I am single now, lol).

I'm not an expert in relationships and probably don't know how to help you "find the one", but I have some advice that I know will work to find girls to talk to.

Is anyone interested in discussing how to approach dating like a salesman?

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Post Information

Title	Question for You All
Author	Jdaddyk07
Upvotes	7
Comments	31
Date	October 22, 2021 3:04 AM UTC (4 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/seduction
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/seduction/comments/qd7x62/question_for_you_all/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/seduction/question-for-you-all.1273828 https://theredarchive.com/post/1273828

Comments

[–]thetapebaper1789 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

[–]Jdaddyk07 5 points6 points7 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Lol alright.

So, there are some numbers to get in your head before you start approaching women. These are sales numbers I use when I'm doing cold approaches for work.

10 conversations = 1 lead (lead being someone who is interested in you)

3 leads = 1 appointment (appointment being a date)

3 appointments = 1 close (being sleeping with a girl or girlfriend opportunity)

So, approach talking to women with an attitude that you are going to need to approach 90 women, to get a girlfriend.

Now, an approach could be anything. A text to a random number, saying hi in a coffee shop, making a comment in line at Target, ect. Most of the time it won't take that many tries to get a girl who is interested, but if you approach dating with this mindset, you won't get discouraged because if you talk to 90 women - I promise by the time you run through that many tries, you will have way more success.

[–]amorconleche 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Jdaddyk07 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

Then, have some sort of pitch. Have a routine method of approaching women that you can use over and over again. NOT a pick-up line, but a format that gets attention and contains these components:

For example, on Tinder, I use this format:

Attention Grabber ("I need some advice")

Who am I and why am I here ("I think this girl is cute and want to get to know her")

The hook ("look through her pictures and describe her. Don't be overt though, she should figure out it is her by reading the description")

The close ("I think she is x type of girl or maybe y type, but what do you think")

So, {girl} I really need some advice. I was just checking out this really cute girl the other day. She's totally someone I would like to get to know better and maybe ask her on a date. She seems pretty cool, she's really cute and seems approachable. She likes going to the beach, but she has some photos of her on motorcycles. I've never been on a motorcycle and am a little intimidated.. To be honest I'm a little nervous to ask her out, I just can't tell if she's a coffee shop kinda gal or a mini-golf girl. What do you think?

This wasn't the best example, but use the format and customize to fit each woman independently.

[–]Hmmoklolthisisfine 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]Jdaddyk07 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

IRL dating is harder though. Most of the time you'll get turned down more. The formula is essentially the same.

Attention getter

Who you are and why you are there

The Hook

The close

Except, in real life, those steps are spread out farther. There isn't really a format to approaching a woman in real life. I think thats important to notice. You need to be able to understand her and customize the interaction.

For example, I was at a bar a few nights ago and was by myself playing Tropical Thunder. Two girls were standing behind me and when I finished I asked them if they wanted to play, they said yes, so I got out of the way. A while later I met some dudes and we ended up playing a party game together. After we won I looked at the girls and said, "look, you know its okay to lose. Really, you did your best." and they giggled. I went with them to the bar and asked them to buy me a drink, and they did. We ended up playing Jenga for like an hour.

But there is no formula for that. It depends on the girls. I strike out more than I have anything positive happen. The important thing is to keep trying.

[–]Jdaddyk07 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]DAB999 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (18 children) | Copy Link

[–]Jdaddyk07 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (17 children) | Copy Link

Cool, I'm just kinda writing snippets at a time. I love talking about this stuff!

So, I have watched most of the dating advice, blogs, etc that are available and most of the advise is terrible. There is one gal who is good - Emyli Lovz. She teaches from a sales perspective that will actually work.

Cold approaching in public is I think the hardest for people, so some tips:

As always I think mindset going into this is highly important. With a bad attitude you may as well just go home - need to get your mind right as that is the biggest factor in all this.

out of 10 women:

3/10 - will dislike you

3/10 - will like you

3/10 - it is up to you

1/10` - will hate you no matter what

1/30 - will be insane

KEEP THESE NUMBERS IN MIND.

If a girl is apathetic towards you: "Its okay, 30% of them will be"

If a girl ignores you: "It's okay 30% of them won't care"

If girl is mean to you: "Its okay 10% of people are just mean"

If she expresses interest in you: "Cool 30% of women will like me for me"

This is actually based on personality types. You will naturally get along with people who have similar personality types of you. There are four main personality types and you have a combination of them and so do all the girls you are talking to. Around 60% of people you interact with will be, to some degree, compatible or someone you can hold a conversation with.

If you aren't familiar with personality types:

Driver, Amicable, Expressive, Analytical OR

Red, Yellow, Blue, Green

https://www.astridbaumgardner.com/blog-and-resources/communicating-under-pressure-how-to-leverage-and-flex-the-4-communication-styles/

These personality types are highly important to recognize as you can tailor your communication style to the direct personality type and understand more about the person and what you can say. For example:

A driver will be impatient, blunt, outspoken and will not appreciate a lot of "beating around the bush". This is the girl that will immediately shut you down and insult you when you approach the group. Or, it is the girl who will approach you.

Amicable will be the girl that is too nice to tell you she doesn't like you. You can push these types of people around and tell them what to do. These are the gals who will give you their number and never respond.

Expressive, the girl who talks a lot and tells stories. She will typically talk a lot, enjoy stories and telling you them. This is the girl who will send paragraph texts.

Analytical, this is the STEM girl who likes data statistics and will take awhile to make a decision. You will likely not be able to close this girl on the first interaction, you'll have to give her time to analyze you.

Now, people are often combinations of these and each person has a little bit of these in their personality. There is often times one personality type that is most noticeable. People are similar enough you can group them for first interactions, but different enough you need to pay attention to each individual and treat them as such once you get to know them.

So, when you see a girl you want to approach. You can watch them for a little bit and get a vibe for their personality type. A driver will usually be the leader of the group and other people will follow their lead. An expressive will be talking and showing a lot of expression, they will be the confident talker in the group. An analytic is harder to spot, but this personality type is usually correlated with OCD type behaviors (not like the mental health disorder) but they will be cleanly dressed, usually not the most trendy, they usually be quiet and watching. Amicable will be the cute looking one in the group who is adopting a weak-type posture and her friends may talk over her.

There are also social demographic groups which are useful for this and can further help you identify personality type and interests.

For social demographics: https://www.investopedia.com/terms/d/demographics.asp

This is important because aside finding a woman attractive you need to understand that woman are much more than just their looks and have different, OFTEN TIMES MUCH MORE VALUABLE, things to offer in a relationship. Some considerations:

What's the woman age?

What's the woman's education level?

What are the woman's interests?

What is the woman's financial stability?

Etc.

So, to sum, you see a woman at a coffee shop. She is wearing high wasted mom jeans, bright white shoes, a turtle neck sweater, talking to the barista, wearing a back pack with the local College Logo, has her hair pulled back in a pony tail, is wearing glasses, is skinny, but not obviously athletic and she appears to be about 22-23. So, we likely have a grad-student in some sort of STEM program.

She orders some pumpkin spice latte...

She's not obviously athletic, so she didn't get into college for an athletic scholarship and won't be a big gym fan. If she's a grad student, she will likely be intelligent, so corny pick-up lines are a no. She's talking to the barista, so she's open and likely expressive, so she will probably talk to you and humor will be a good option.

Alright so the approach would be:

After she orders, order your drink quickly (simple coffee), and then go and stand next to her (you know its going to take them a few seconds to make the pumpkin drink). Look at her and say, "I used to drink those things, but I had a terrible experience with pumpkins a few years ago and just can't any more." and then wait.

She will respond and then you're off.

Now, I do actually hate pumpkins. I had the flu awhile ago and threw up pumpkin soup. I just can't do it anymore. By saying you "used to drink those" you are prepping her for a story. By saying "I had a bad experience with pumpkins" you are being unique in your phrasing and instead of just saying "I threw up pumpkins" - that is boring and doesn't create any sort of question. By saying "I just can't do it anymore" you are making it easier for her to ask, "What is a bad experience with pumpkins and why does that mean you can't eat them now?"

Okay, so that was a lot and I touched on just the surface of a lot of things...lol

Any questions?

[–]DAB999 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago* (16 children) | Copy Link

[–]Jdaddyk07 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (12 children) | Copy Link

Essentially you make an "assumption" about her personality and use that to give yourself the highest percentage of success in the first approach.

You then need to open your eyes and ears and dig to figure out the rest of her personality and test or original assumptions. The odds are what you first assumed may be a little correct, but she's likely much more complex. Obviously you can't judge a book by its cover.

So, to your super market milf, think about relationship progression and your surroundings. Approaching a girl at a coffee shop or a super market; they are not there to find a man. They are there to shop - if you try to pick her up and keep her longer you'll lose her interest and the conversation will go dry. Environment and her mind set matter. So, here is an example of a relationship progression.

Meet milf at super market

She gives buying signal

1st close - get her contact info.

Contact milf

she gives buying signal

2nd close - have her agree to meet for one on one time

Go out on a date

she gives buying signals

3rd close - bring her home, or schedule 2nd date and begin texting more frequently

You notice I mentioned "buying signals" when working in sales, this is when a prospect shows/tells you they want to buy your product and it is an immediate signal to ask for the sale. For example, I currently sell insurance roof repairs. When I am talking to a customer at the door and they say something like "so how do I call my insurance and what do I say?". I stop what I am doing, "say, let's do it together", pull out my phone and call their insurance company right there.

A woman will give you a buying signal when she is interested in buying the product - you in this case. Could be anything from flirting with you, touching you, making a comment about doing something with you or expressing interest. You'll learn to identify these as you practice.

The key is to not move the relationship progression too quickly and understand that seduction has steps and each step needs to have time in between it. In the grocery store is not the place to get to know a woman, it is a place to meet someone, flirt briefly, and get contact info. That is it. That is the whole seduction process in a super market. Meet, show some sort of value, close on the number and start moving her through the relationship pipeline.

So, your milf super market gal interaction might look like this:

You meet your milf at the super market, comment on her food and she smiles and responds positively and says something like "oh, I'm so glad you're shopping with me today." You'll want to act busy (NEVER EVER EVER SELL DESPERATELY) and say something like "Hey, I need to finish shopping, you seem fun" or "I need to finishing shopping, but I like you can I please have your number?"

Get her number, finish shopping and go about your day. Later that night text her something like "Hey, this is Joe from the super market, hope you made it home okay with your cucumbers!"

And then work towards closing her on a one on one date. Notice how I am texting her "hope you made it home okay" as if we just finished our first date - but its lighthearted because I'm referencing an absurd vegetable.

If you look at one of my other posts on this thread, you could text her the tinder opener example format:

"Hey this is Joe from the super market earlier, it was great to meet you and I need some advice. I met this really pretty girl today who......(proceed to infer it is her)

I don't know if she's a coffee shop type of girl or a zoo girl, what do you think?"

[–]DAB999 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (11 children) | Copy Link

[–]Jdaddyk07 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link

Good questions,

Okay, comment on a decision she's making or a situation she is in. For example:

If she is looking at bananas in the fruit section:

Point at the biggest one you can find and say "pick that one, its the biggest"

If her cart wheel is wobbly in the isle

Point at the wheel and say "These things never, would you like me to call the cart maintenance guy?"

Just approach her and say "you look like you know your way around the store, where can I find the almond butter?"

she points "Over there"

you "cool would you please show me" and see if she will walk you there

Don't worry about keeping the conversation stimulating or interesting, it is too much pressure for your brain to handle. It'll will throw you off. A good way to get more comfortable in conversations is to have them. Try just talking to people in the community where you live. Strike up conversations in the store with men, women, grandpas, and grandmas. Personally, I love talking to little old ladies. They are fun and often times will flirt with you just because they haven't had attention in 30 years from any younger men. Ask a nice old lady to help you shop. Have fun meeting people. Ironically, this will also get attention. Imagine if a young attractive women sees you helping grandma at the grocery store. Husband material right there.

Buying signals:

Buying signals a little hard to explain as they are often different for each woman. Before I talk about them I'll give you a simple test you can run I like to call a "temp check". See if she's hot for you or not.

When you're talking to a woman, without breaking conversation simply take a half step closer to her. This is based on the study of proxemics:

https://study.com/academy/lesson/what-is-proxemics-definition-examples.html

When you step closer to her, if she steps away from you, you are invading her space and she's not comfortable with you or doesn't have an interest level high enough to allow you into her space. Usually within about 36" (1 meter for you EU people) people start getting weirded out and will step away. If she doesn't move away, she has some level of interest.

If she lets you into her space and you've chatted a bit, you can go for a close right there.

Here is a simple template to follow:

step 1: build value and interest

step 2: buying signal/temp check

step 3: close

- if the close fails, go back to step one and wait for the next buying signal. Don't give up after the first try, ever. As long as you are polite and don't visibly get upset you can try multiple times. If she is amicable you may be able to get a number just off of persistence.

Okay so what are buying signals. Buying signals are signs of interest she is either showing with her body language or with her words.

- She starts using "we" when discussing things. "Yah, we are really good shoppers" or anything really

- She starts asking personal questions about you. If she asks if you a personal question like: where do you live, do you have a girlfriend, where do you work, etc. That is a buying signal. She is signaling that she is interested enough and wants to learn about you.

- She stares at you with eye contact for longer than 7 seconds.

- She touches you

- She giggles way too much at something you say

You'll want to get a couple of these before going for a close, like maybe she stares at you, says "yah, we should totally go shopping together sometime" and touches you. Ask for her number or snapchat.

[–]DAB999 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

Good questions,

Okay, comment on a decision she's making or a situation she is in. For example:

If she is looking at bananas in the fruit section:

Point at the biggest one you can find and say "pick that one, its the biggest"

If her cart wheel is wobbly in the isle

Point at the wheel and say "These things never, would you like me to call the cart maintenance guy?"

Or

Just approach her and say "you look like you know your way around the store, where can I find the almond butter?"

she points "Over there"

you "cool would you please show me" and see if she will walk you there

Don't worry about keeping the conversation stimulating or interesting, it is too much pressure for your brain to handle. It'll will throw you off. A good way to get more comfortable in conversations is to have them. Try just talking to people in the community where you live. Strike up conversations in the store with men, women, grandpas, and grandmas. Personally, I love talking to little old ladies. They are fun and often times will flirt with you just because they haven't had attention in 30 years from any younger men. Ask a nice old lady to help you shop. Have fun meeting people. Ironically, this will also get attention.

But at least should I worry about to keep the conversation going right ? If so, how do you keep the conversation going?

For instance a girl is checking the yogurts, Should I ask how that is? And then say for instance, I can say that a brand didn't seem good to me and wanted to try out a new brand. Then she'll go saying something about its characteristics, and at each statement she does about that characteristic, I'll ask her a new question related to that characteristic or I'll make a new statement about that, and she will start to talk about a new thing about the yogurt brand, and then again I'll apply this template at each new statement she'll make .

Just like applying the pumpkin template that you described above in a never ending flux

So in this way i can apply the step 1 and 2 that you described

I was thinking to apply these method with the women in sporty clothes and smartwatch. I think that I can bomb them with question about sport clothes, and adding a good dose of genuine interest. I've understood to practice talking with people in general and everywhere, but what method do you use to keep the conversation going with your clients and people in general?

The point is how do you keep the conversation going, just going , without caring about the interest and stimulating level as you said.

Imagine if a young attractive women sees you helping grandma at the grocery store. Husband material right there.

this is Charlie Sheen stuff from TWO AND HALF MEN. Did you ever pulled off a gig like that?

Buying signals:

Buying signals a little hard to explain as they are often different for each woman. Before I talk about them I'll give you a simple test you can run I like to call a "temp check". See if she's hot for you or not.

When you're talking to a woman, without breaking conversation simply take a half step closer to her. This is based on the study of proxemics:

https://study.com/academy/lesson/what-is-proxemics-definition-examples.html

When you step closer to her, if she steps away from you, you are invading her space and she's not comfortable with you or doesn't have an interest level high enough to allow you into her space. Usually within about 36" (1 meter for you EU people) people start getting weirded out and will step away. If she doesn't move away, she has some level of interest.

If she lets you into her space and you've chatted a bit, you can go for a close right there.

Here is a simple template to follow:

step 1: build value and interest

step 2: buying signal/temp check

step 3: close

- if the close fails, go back to step one and wait for the next buying signal. Don't give up after the first try, ever. As long as you are polite and don't visibly get upset you can try multiple times. If she is amicable you may be able to get a number just off of persistence.

Okay so what are buying signals. Buying signals are signs of interest she is either showing with her body language or with her words.

- She starts using "we" when discussing things. "Yah, we are really good shoppers" or anything really

- She starts asking personal questions about you. If she asks if you a personal question like: where do you live, do you have a girlfriend, where do you work, etc. That is a buying signal. She is signaling that she is interested enough and wants to learn about you.

- She stares at you with eye contact for longer than 7 seconds.

- She touches you

- She giggles way too much at something you say

You'll want to get a couple of these before going for a close, like maybe she stares at you, says "yah, we should totally go shopping together sometime" and touches you. Ask for her number or snapchat.

[–]Jdaddyk07 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Correct,

But at least should I worry about to keep the conversation going right ? If so, how do you keep the conversation going?

Move the conversation to text first. If you meet a girl in a grocery store her very first instinct is going to be scared of you. Women are scared of men to some degree and you can't spook them. They have dedicated threads about how to spot red flags and creepy men. Doesn't matter how nice you are or not. You will come off as creepy if you try and talk too long in a grocery store.

That being said, use what are called "Trees and Branches" It is a conversation technique which is highly useful. You follow this and you can literally talk to anyone. Any race, nationality, language, or type of women you come across.

Imagine a tree.

The main "Base" of the conversation is what you opened with. Now, you just work you're way up the tree. Each new small topic you bring up becomes a branch. When you get to the end of a branch, move back to the tree until you find another branch."

This works extremely well in text conversation.

If you have any texts you want help with, I can be extremely helpful there.

On the interests, you just have to act like "you". If you are genuine and kind to people, you can basically say whatever you want.

Charlie Sheen?

What do you mean?

[–]DAB999 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]Jdaddyk07 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Jdaddyk07 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[–]DAB999 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago* (4 children) | Copy Link

OK, let's continue with the supermarket.I see a woman at the fridge aisle. I keep to insist with the fridge, because it seems to me that's one of the spots where the women spent most time. Maybe it's just me...

She's checking again yogurts or some fresh cheese.

Me: "Sorry, is that brand good (brand A)?", or " How's that you're choosing ?"

Her : yeah, "I usually take this" or "I usually take this because...."

Me: "What's the difference with these other one (brand B)" I point on purpose on low fat yogurts

her: "Well yeah, ita has lower fats and it has....."

Me: " what about calories"

Her " well obviously brand A has more calories than brand b"

Let's say i got stuck here, how do I keep the conversation going ? (Do I apply branch and tree? how?)

For instance,

Me : "so brand A is like greek yogurt right?"

Her : " No! Greek yogurt has ....

Me: "wich one is it..."

Or should I ask keep asking if Brand A is good for someone who trains in the gym, or for a sport diet?

In the sew cold approaches i made, (less then 10) I saw that after 2 or three statements, done in a way that trigger the interests of the person or that woman has interests in, she starts to talk about it, starting to say things of her own initiative, trying to give you an advice about the matter or just making statements

By the way I train bodybuilding

[–]Jdaddyk07 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

Got it, you have some good foundations there but your word choice and topic choice need a little work. Honestly, talking about yogurt isn't that fun. Now if YOU love yogurt and want to talk about it, you'll want to identify a woman who is also fond of yogurt.

Look for leggings, obviously physical attributes, etc. So, lets say the girl is also a gym person...

Me: "Sorry, is that brand good (brand A)?", or " How's that you're choosing ?"

*** "So, usually I like to eat (Brand A) but have been thinking about switching to (Brand B). What are your thoughts?"

Notes: Don't ever apologize ever. Replace "sorry" in your vocabulary with "thank you for being patient". Notice how my phrases are asking for her opinion and giving her an opportunity to elaborate. A simple choice A or B is unlikely to give you an opportunity for a branch if the tree is yogurt.

Her : yeah, "I usually take this" or "I usually take this because...."

While she is elaborating on why she likes yogurt, listen and look for a branch to move the conversation to something more interesting. If there is nothing else to ask this is where you're going to take a risk. Its called a "bid". When you are building a relationship with a woman you will give "bids" throughout and see if she responds. This is a great way look for mutual, initial interest. It is risky however because at this point you're mostly judged on your appearance and your initial impression. Most of the time you'll get nothing and have to move on.

*** Assuming you've been making eye contact with her: "You have really pretty eyes."

She can either accept the bid and compliment you back or she can just brush you off. If she brushes you off, then you may have to call it. If she accepts I would then see if she would shop with me the rest of the time.

***"So, I have like 5 things left to get (pull out your list) do you know where the (whatever) item is. And it should be something unique. Don't ask where the eggs are. You're not dumb.

Her: "yes the (item) is over there"

***"Great, would you like to help me find it?"

Now we are creating movement. I just don't think that standing in one place at the super market flirting is a good strategy. It makes both of you stand out and is against social norms. Now if you are shopping together its much more comfortable and gives you the opportunity to complete a task together.

Now, you'll have 10-15 minutes to actually spend with her. A mini date maybe.
Or should I ask keep asking if Brand A is good for someone who trains in the gym, or for a sport diet?
In the sew cold approaches i made, (less then 10) I saw that after 2 or three statements, done in a way that trigger the interests of the person or that woman has interests in, she starts to talk about it, starting to say things of her own initiative, trying to give you an advice about the matter or just making statements
By the way I train bodybuilding

Try not to talk about your passion for body building unless she asks. Take some time to figure out what she likes. Depending on how into it you are, you'll want to hold off until she asks. You may be WAY more into it than her and come off as intimidating.

[–]DAB9991 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

I'm focused on the supermarket and similar places, because there are a lot of women , and you can optimize your time.

I saw a milf the other day at supermarket , she was wearing a wind jacket and sweat pants. My instinct was:

Me: "Can I ask you a question"

her: "yes"

me: "i like you jacket, where did you get it"

her: " I got t at...."

me "how is it?"

her "well, actually it's very good..." she discusses about the jacket's features.

We keep discussing about the features of the jacket, for instance:

me "Well i was searching something like that, but but it fits small around my thorax, and the bigger size it's too long..." and the " how is is this brand" " how it fits"

and after she answers

me " so what would you suggest?"

practically I ask something else more specific about the jacket related to my problem, I will ask her opinions and advice, so she will try to give me some info and advice on how and what jacket to choose. I will use branch and tree asking more specific questions about the jacket

What i want to do is to build a friendly bond in a very fast way,

(I want also try to make her ask em some personal questions about me but , i have to start to approach to understand how things works. Any other advice about this?)

If I see that she become friendly, and indicators, I would try to talk about some other topic , related to the context of the supermarket, or about what sport she practices and related topics or also we keep talking about the sport clothes , and so on ....

After that I've understood what jacket choose, I say that's been very nice to talk to her, we should exchange numbers so that we can spend some good time sometimes , and also that she can send a link of where she got the jacket online , or the brand's site.

Any advice?

. It makes both of you stand out and is against social norms.

So those videos that I see on youtube, where in few minutes they got number of the broad in the grocery store ( both MILFs and younger girls) is just a rare case, let's say 1 out of 20 approaches, meanwhile for the other approaches they got rejected and for those that they got the number from the broad they had to spend more time in the conversation in order to build interest in her ( always keeping in mind the numbers that you mentioned above) ?

[–]Jdaddyk072 points 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

So, first on the videos you see:

I collect names and numbers for a living by knocking on doors. Here is my pitch if I am selling paint jobs:

Me: "Hi, my name is Josh and I am the local branch manager for Perfect Painting, I noticed you have some peeling paint on your door and I would love to offer you a free estimate."

Homeowner: We aren't interested.

Me: " Did you notice this peeling (pointing at the peeling)"

Homeowner: "Yah, but right now we just aren't going to do anything about it."

Me: "Oh, thats fine, I'm not doing estimates today. I'm going to be out here later this week giving some of the neighbors free estimates. How about I stop by sometime this week and take a look. Sound good? (I'm gently nodding my head in a "yes" fashion while I'm asking."

Homeowner: Sure

Me: "Great, whats your first name, last name and best number to reach you at"

Boom name and number. Now about 50% of the time I'll never set an estimate. The reason for this is that there are different levels of leads.

A qualified lead is something where the homeowner has a need, its a big project and they don't throw me 5 objections.

An unqualified lead is where I pressure them into giving me info because I talk fast and don't leave.

I would be interested to see what the follow-up looks like for the videos you see online. I would imagine more than 50% of those names and numbers don't convert. Also, I have no idea how much time they spend in the store or how many girls they ask.

You want qualified leads that convert. Not just names and numbers.

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Okay, back to the grocery store example. So, start thinking about your "game" as a lifestyle. Whatever college town you are in, start building a routine outside of where college kids are. Here are some example locations:

- Go to grocery stores where the age demographics match the age range you are looking for. You can find demographic maps on the local cities website. Then you can literally pick grocery stores where all the surrounding people are the age you are interested in.

- Find a local bar

- Find a local gym

- Find some sort of hobby around the area - like a running group or something

Then, start going to the local grocery store at the same time every week. Say, 10am to 11am every Saturday for your groceries. Go to the local gym on a schedule as well. Then the local bar.

Every time you are there talk to the cashiers, bar tenders, gym attendees and trainers. Start building yourself a market and becoming part of the community. This will help your game. It is easier when you are a part of a woman's "sphere". Keep doing your cold approaches but develop a routine where you start to become known at local places. Then when a woman comes in she sees a confident guy talking to the bar tender or trainer or whatever it is. You then have the chance to have a woman to talk to at each location. So, you can have Saturday, we know Jenny goes shopping. Monday, Wednesday, Friday, we talk to Christina and Joanne and Friday we grab beers with Maria and flirt with bartender Carole.

Do you see what I'm getting at?

[–]DAB9991 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

So, first on the videos you see:

I collect names and numbers for a living by knocking on doors. Here is my pitch if I am selling paint jobs:

Me: "Hi, my name is Josh and I am the local branch manager for Perfect Painting, I noticed you have some peeling paint on your door and I would love to offer you a free estimate."

Homeowner: We aren't interested.

Me: " Did you notice this peeling (pointing at the peeling)"

Homeowner: "Yah, but right now we just aren't going to do anything about it."

Me: "Oh, thats fine, I'm not doing estimates today. I'm going to be out here later this week giving some of the neighbors free estimates. How about I stop by sometime this week and take a look. Sound good? (I'm gently nodding my head in a "yes" fashion while I'm asking."

Homeowner: Sure

Me: "Great, whats your first name, last name and best number to reach you at"

Boom name and number. Now about 50% of the time I'll never set an estimate. The reason for this is that there are different levels of leads.

A qualified lead is something where the homeowner has a need, its a big project and they don't throw me 5 objections.

An unqualified lead is where I pressure them into giving me info because I talk fast and don't leave.

I would be interested to see what the follow-up looks like for the videos you see online. I would imagine more than 50% of those names and numbers don't convert. Also, I have no idea how much time they spend in the store or how many girls they ask.

You want qualified leads that convert. Not just names and numbers.

I would like to know, not so much the leads that convert, but how many broads they approached before the one in the that gave them the number during a day game session in a mall or grocery store. What I think is that this people want to emulate the early pick up artists on you tube, as RSD , to make money, in fact in their channel homepage they have the link to their coaching sites.Putting that aside, do you have any other advice for approaching women at the supermarket? Or I should start to approach and then I'll report to you?

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Okay, back to the grocery store example. So, start thinking about your "game" as a lifestyle. Whatever college town you are in, start building a routine outside of where college kids are. Here are some example locations:

- Go to grocery stores where the age demographics match the age range you are looking for. You can find demographic maps on the local cities website. Then you can literally pick grocery stores where all the surrounding people are the age you are interested in.

- Find a local bar

- Find a local gym

- Find some sort of hobby around the area - like a running group or something

Then, start going to the local grocery store at the same time every week. Say, 10am to 11am every Saturday for your groceries. Go to the local gym on a schedule as well. Then the local bar.

Every time you are there talk to the cashiers, bar tenders, gym attendees and trainers. Start building yourself a market and becoming part of the community. This will help your game. It is easier when you are a part of a woman's "sphere". Keep doing your cold approaches but develop a routine where you start to become known at local places. Then when a woman comes in she sees a confident guy talking to the bar tender or trainer or whatever it is. You then have the chance to have a woman to talk to at each location. So, you can have Saturday, we know Jenny goes shopping. Monday, Wednesday, Friday, we talk to Christina and Joanne and Friday we grab beers with Maria and flirt with bartender Carole.

Do you see what I'm getting at?

I think i got it.

You mean go to a local bar, and become friend with the bartenders and the guys and girls that hang out there regularly. So that in this way, I'm not like a normal customer, and while I hang out there, I can approach The new customers and the women (that I haven't met) that comes in, meanwhile knowing the bartenders and some of the people there, when they go out with some girl-friends some of their girl-friends come into the bar, I get to know their female-friends. For instance, I know Christina, Friday night she goes out with 2 friends ( both girls), when I see her at the bar i can meet her two friends also.

Meanwhile with the above benefits that you described, I can approach random girls normally right?

By the way I thought of start to learn salsa as hobby, regarding The gym, it's since the virus that I train with weights in the garage.

[–]Jdaddyk07 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Jdaddyk07 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]Jdaddyk07 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Another thing about seduction is that people who typically teach it don't properly get you in the correct mindset. In sales it takes on average 8-11 contacts to close a deal and most people give up after 2.

The biggest deal I ever closed was over 100K on one project. It took me around 80 hours of work, multiple meetings, probably 30 emails and 10 phone calls to get the papers signed. I had another client last year who it took me over a year, multiple meetings at his house, random phone calls at 9pm before he finally signed the paperwork.

Dating is the same way, you'll need to put effort into each woman and begin viewing the idea of "closing" as simply moving the woman closer towards a relationship with you - or sex, whatever the goal is. Every time you speak with her and have a date, you will need to "close" her on the idea of seeing you again or even texting you again. The more interactions you have the closer you work towards finally getting the deal done.

[–]DAB999 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago* (4 children) | Copy Link

The best way I am going to be able to help answer some of these questions is to work with you on real life scenarios.Do you have any current situations you'd like advice on?

https://www.reddit.com/r/seduction/comments/qd7x62/comment/hhvi9md/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3

OK so, let's assume I go to a bar or coffe shop.

I wouldn't have no problem to approach a girl if she was by herself. But how to approach a broad that's in a group fo 2 or more women, and in particular if they are sitting at a table? And then we've to distinguish:

- how to approach a group of girls sitting at the table 29 years old and younger

- How to approach a group of milf/cougars sitting at the table 30 years old and older.

And after that, how to approach these groups if there are men in it.

Keep in mind that I'm in my twenties and I go to university, so that's why I want to understand on how to approach a group of MILFs, so let's assume i'm interested in one of them, and the I can't get her number because she's with her friends and she doesn't want to let her friends see that she wants to date or hook up with a younger guy or for whatever reason. My worries is that she might have her own reasons to not lt her friends know that she wants to hook up with a younger guy, meanwhile if I had the chance to approach her when she was alone, she would've give me her number and we could've started to see each other

[–]Jdaddyk07 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

Alright,

So, the group of all girls will be the hardest. Women will all test you and get defensive over their group. The best option is to approach the one who is the "leader". Remember the personality types? Look for the one who is talking over everyone else and that is the one to approach first - the "driver" or the "expressive" will usually be the one you need their approval. Same way as before, some kind of comment about the situation, something they are doing or something about the environment. This will take ALOT of time to practice and get correct. My best advice here is just start approaching groups and paying attention to the dynamics of what works and what doesn't.

Now approaching a group of men and women is actually, in my opinion, easier than a group of women. What I've found is that many times, women use men as gatekeepers to shoo away other unwanted men. I do this at bars all the time.

See, the key is to approach the group AND make friends with the guys first. As soon as the guys accept you into the group, you can then start hitting on the women and the guys will actually turn other men down and keep them away from you and the girls. You just need to bro down with the guys a bit and maybe bring them into the conversation with the girls a bit and, like I said, they will actually start shooing other men away. Lol - its a fantastic situation.

THAT BEING SAID,

Women typically start to lose attention around 30. Girls between 18-25 are usually showered with attention and around 30 it starts to dwindle. I usually don't approach older women. (I am 28 and like 22-26 age girls)

However, approaching older women you'll run into two things. I don't usually do this but actually had a conversation with a 40 year old the other night and a few years ago went on a few dates with a 30 year old when I was 25.

If you aren't careful they will dismiss you as immature if you do anything that's not "put together"
Will respond MUCH quicker to compliments than younger women. Simply, they get less.

If you're going after older women here are some places I would look:

- Grocery store

- Yoga classes - its awkward but show up by yourself and start doing some yoga. It'll literally be all women. If you go to a local gym like YMCA it'll be older, out of college women.

- Local sports groups - like volleyball, basketball, whatever you like to play

- Check "meet-up" for local get togethers and meetings. I used to use these to go to events downtown and most people were 30-40. Lots of professional woman who are single. If you are going to do these, dress nice. Most women I met doing this were wearing suites.

- Networking events on "meet-up" events

And don't dress like a college student. I checked out your profile and it seems like you like the biker look. I'm not sure thats the right word? But, thats good. For older women dress blue-collar COMPETENT or white-collar COMPETENT.

In the suburbs:

Think colored tucked in shirt, nice shoes, nice belt to match shoes, hat, watch, etc. Older women LOVE that for some reason. And, it's pretty cheap to do.

Downtown cities:

Think colored shirt, not tucked in, long sleeve shirt, nice shoes, belt, dressy pants and some nice shoes. Otherwise, just hang-out downtown and look at how people dress and find someone who you like their look and copy that.

When I say COMPETENT think about a union electrician. When he shows up, you know does good work and knows how to wire outlets. A weird example but works if you get the metaphor lol.

[–]DAB999 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago* (2 children) | Copy Link

Alright,

So, the group of all girls will be the hardest. Women will all test you and get defensive over their group. The best option is to approach the one who is the "leader". Remember the personality types? Look for the one who is talking over everyone else and that is the one to approach first - the "driver" or the "expressive" will usually be the one you need their approval. Same way as before, some kind of comment about the situation, something they are doing or something about the environment. This will take ALOT of time to practice and get correct. My best advice here is just start approaching groups and paying attention to the dynamics of what works and what doesn't.

Now approaching a group of men and women is actually, in my opinion, easier than a group of women. What I've found is that many times, women use men as gatekeepers to shoo away other unwanted men. I do this at bars all the time.

See, the key is to approach the group AND make friends with the guys first. As soon as the guys accept you into the group, you can then start hitting on the women and the guys will actually turn other men down and keep them away from you and the girls. You just need to bro down with the guys a bit and maybe bring them into the conversation with the girls a bit and, like I said, they will actually start shooing other men away. Lol - its a fantastic situation.

THAT BEING SAID,

Women typically start to lose attention around 30. Girls between 18-25 are usually showered with attention and around 30 it starts to dwindle. I usually don't approach older women. (I am 28 and like 22-26 age girls)

However, approaching older women you'll run into two things. I don't usually do this but actually had a conversation with a 40 year old the other night and a few years ago went on a few dates with a 30 year old when I was 25.

If you aren't careful they will dismiss you as immature if you do anything that's not "put together"Will respond MUCH quicker to compliments than younger women. Simply, they get less

I think I act too mature for my age, as older people tell to me, they used to tell that also during my teens.

Ok, so how should I open the 4 different groups:

- The only girls group that's in their twenties

- The only MILFs group that's older than 30

- The group with guys and girls in their twenties

- The group with guys and MILFs that are older than 30

And also how should I escalate the conversation with each group? Do I use the same methods that we talked before, here above?

By what you say it should be easier to pick up MILfs, even if they are in a group?

The MILFs the you picked up, did you approach her when she was in group, or alone?

And after that I've approached the group, How do I isolate the girl that I'm interested in? After that I've become friend with the group, I start to focus my questions on her, and the others friends start to talk on their own?

WHhat is the group is of 2 girls specifically, which I notice quiete often?

By what you said, the "DIBS" that you talked here before, should work much better with MILFs, even better during night game, right?

What about going out alone? Any advice? Is it better if I've to pick up women?

If you're going after older women here are some places I would look:

- Grocery store

- Yoga classes - its awkward but show up by yourself and start doing some yoga. It'll literally be all women. If you go to a local gym like YMCA it'll be older, out of college women.

- Local sports groups - like volleyball, basketball, whatever you like to play

- Check "meet-up" for local get togethers and meetings. I used to use these to go to events downtown and most people were 30-40. Lots of professional woman who are single. If you are going to do these, dress nice. Most women I met doing this were wearing suites.

- Networking events on "meet-up" events

And don't dress like a college student. I checked out your profile and it seems like you like the biker look. I'm not sure thats the right word? But, thats good. For older women dress blue-collar COMPETENT or white-collar COMPETENT.

I'm a biker, I own a motorcycle, it's not a harley ( I still don't have the money) but it's a cruiser. I usually dress jeans and black t-shirt with a hoodie, and levi's sherpa jacket during winter

Is it better yoga classes or Salsa dancing ?

In the suburbs:

Think colored tucked in shirt, nice shoes, nice belt to match shoes, hat, watch, etc. Older women LOVE that for some reason. And, it's pretty cheap to do.

Downtown cities:

Think colored shirt, not tucked in, long sleeve shirt, nice shoes, belt, dressy pants and some nice shoes. Otherwise, just hang-out downtown and look at how people dress and find someone who you like their look and copy that.

When I say COMPETENT think about a union electrician. When he shows up, you know does good work and knows how to wire outlets. A weird example but works if you get the metaphor lol.

[–]Jdaddyk07 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

So, for girls in their twenties (and this works well for all groups of people actually) if you can be in a location where there are "activities" it is much easier than trying to do it just by talking. For example, I have a local video game bar I like going to. There are arcade games, big connect four, shuffle board, multi-player games, and my favorite, Jenga.

Or just a sports bar with darts, pool or any other kind of multi player game.

Open using same things we talked about before - commenting on something their situation or a decision they are making. Just a quick comment to get a laugh and get their attention. Then, invite them to play a game. Or, ask to join their game. I'll give you an example of when I went to a bar a few weeks ago.

So, I went to a video game bar and was just kind of hanging out with a beer and playing some hydro thunder (my personal favorite). I went outside to bum a smoke off of someone. I use this quite a bit, I don't like to smoke often but when I have a few beers I like to bum smokes off of people. The thing about smokers is it is probably the easiest way I have ever found to open a conversation. You don't have to be funny or even look good - just ask for a smoke and then as long as it takes you to finish they talk to you. The bar I go to has tables and two smoking patios outside. I approached a group of three girls and two guys and they shot me down (early 20s), so I went over to a table of two guys and three girls (30s) and one of the guys gave me a cigarette and I sat with them for awhile.

I went back to play Hydro Thunder and while I was playing there were two girls (20s) hanging out behind me. It's a two player game and I was the only one playing. After I finished I asked the girls if they were waiting to play. They said yes and I let them have them game.

Then I went to bum another cigarette again, lol I'm that guy, and there wasn't anyone outside who looked like fun so I saw some awkward looking guy in the corner and I went and smoked with him. Was actually a cool dude and his brother came back with drinks and invited me to play an 8 person multiplayer game.

I went with them and some other dude joined. The two girls (RedHead and ShortGirl) who took my seat earlier were on the other team. Our team won and I looked at the girls and said "hey, it's okay to lose you know." and they kind of glared at me. I like to talk shit when I play games lol. We played 3-4 more rounds. And after the last one the girls started to leave and I walked up to them and asked them to buy me a drink. They said yes. The bar was super busy so we chatted for awhile. I talked with the taller one about her red hair and the other one wasn't really into me so I just kind of left her out of it. After they got their drinks they left me at the bar and went somewhere else.

I walked around a bit and played some games and then went outside again. RedHead and ShortGirl were playing Jenga with another girl (Crazy Girl) and her bf (20s). So I walked over and asked if I could play. They let me and we were all standing around in a circle playing. General conversation and me telling people to pull on the hardest bricks so I can win. The new girl was really kind of eccentric and kept doing these stupid little dances while she was pulling blocks out. Her boyfriend had left her there and was somewhere else.

She had a Jule and kept leaning in towards the Jenga tower with the Jule in her mouth. I watched her do it like twice and the third time, when she was concentrating I reached over and flicked the Jule and she almost lost the game. She glared at me and we kept playing. A few rounds later I flicked her Jule again (we hadn't talked at all) and she grabbed my arm and said "OMG your vibe" and scooted over next to me and started asking me questions.

Her BF was back and I kinda shoo'd her off of me. RedHead and ShortGirl had started talking to another dude and CrazyGirl was going to cause a scene hanging all over me in front of her boyfriend. So, I saw another group of like 6 people next to us (20s) so I tapped a girl on the should and got their attention and asked if they wanted to play. A few of them joined the Jenga game. I said she looked like Jennifer Aniston and totally messed up the compliment and she literally left. But, Mandi and her guy friend joined the group. The rest of the night I hung out with Mandi and CrazyGirl. At this point crazy girl was standing right in front of me while we were playing Jenga and wiggling her butt at me every time it was her turn. After the third time when her BF wasn't around she was pulling a Jenga block out and I reached up and gave her hair a little tug. She loved it and literally turned around and hugged me and grabbed my phone out of my hands and started entering her info. Then her BF came and took her attention away from me.

I smoked another cigarette with two 40 year old women at one point. I noticed them smoking and went over and asked for one and we smoked together and talked.

Mandi and I played shuffle board with a football bro and some other dude for the last like hour. We got football bro (22 year old college football player) to buy us rounds of drinks. Turns out Mandi had a boyfriend so at the end of the night she let with her friend. CrazyGirl found me again and barely let me leave.

I messaged her the next day, but never got a response.

[–]Jdaddyk07 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

So, the purpose of this example is to illustrate a couple of points that I hope can answer your questions about opening groups.

1st - target all groups. Men, women, 20s, 30s, 40s etc, because you never know how one group can introduce you to another.

2nd - It is more about your attitude than what you say. If you are having fun, laughing, teasing and just have a "good vibe" groups of people will start to be drawn to you.

3rd - If there are boyfriends or other men in the groups, MAKE SURE TO MAKE FRIENDS WITH THEM. I spent like 20 minutes chatting with CrazyGirls boyfriend.

4th - Navigating group dynamics is not too complicated, but you just have to stay alert. Don't ever try to FORCE yourself the "Alpha". Do it by controlling what the group does and make sure the group likes you.

5th - Confidently ask for things. Foot ball bro was talking to Mandi and I just straight up asked him if he would buy us a round of drinks. HE ACTUALLY DID, and he completely devalued himself by doing that. People will rarely say "no" to you if you are polite and direct. If he would have said "no", I would have just said, "wanted to ask!" and then went and bought my own drink. Not going to argue or be a dick, but I'll ask.

On isolating a girl from the group, it's easier if you can pair off the friend with another guy. So, if you can get together a group of people together playing a game. Learn everyone's name. Then when you and your girl start flirting a little more, you'll notice the friend getting antsy. When the friend gets antsy, help her entertain herself. Hopefully the group is big enough to where she has made another friend.
RedHead left for awhile and her friend ShortGirl started talking to me. But only after her friend was occupied and left her alone.
By what you say it should be easier to pick up MILfs, even if they are in a group?

Yeah, simply because they won't be getting as much attention. BUT, getting one home will likely be more challenging. Or going to her place...
The MILFs the you picked up, did you approach her when she was in group, or alone?

I've had older women approach me and I've approached them - in groups and not in groups.

After that I've become friend with the group, I start to focus my questions on her, and the others friends start to talk on their own?

Hopefully, this is where it helps to have a wingman. To occupy the other girl/girls.
What is the group is of 2 girls specifically, which I notice quiete often?

Having a wingman will make this easier if you want to take one home that night. Otherwise, get numbers before the end of the night and make sure the girl you want likes you and her friend approves of you. Then when you text her, she will answer.
What about going out alone? Any advice? Is it better if I've to pick up women?

Personally, I go out by myself like 80% of the time. I'm very social so I just talk to people until something interesting happens. I talk to bar tenders, random dudes, women, all ages, I don't care. You'll always find a group to join. Like in my example above the first group I approached straight up shot me down lol. And the night before I struck out like three times in a row at the video game bar and went to the VFW next door to hang out with the older crowd. Wasn't nearly as much fun.
I find when you go to a bar alone and talk to people, people start commenting on how confident you are and telling you how they could never do that. It happens to me a few times a month and it's always surprising.
Hope this answers your questions - it is long but I thought a story would better illustrate the mind set and flow of talking to groups at a bar. It doesn't really happen where you meet one group and stay with them. You kind bounce around until the end of the night when people start going home. I think women will bounce around and see whats all available before picking a man.