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[–]asad16 1 point2 points3 points 12 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
I feel like a cheap idiot if I don't
Why do you feel this way. Think about this. Is this approval seeking behaviour?
I know I'm not answering your question, but take a step back. Why are you boxing yourself into this 'dinner' mentality. Go for drinks. Go for a walk. Go for coffee. Go to a comedy show. Try inexpensive dates.
I make 3x more money than my gf and we try to keep it 50/50. Even though she can't afford a lot of stuff, she tries to make it up in other ways (i.e cooking me meals).
[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Great comment, thanks. Dinner is just an example.
[–]TheCuriousDude 1 point2 points3 points 12 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
If you have cash to spend, do whatever the hell you want.
However, let me give the three major reasons why you shouldn't pay for dates:
Gender equality. This whole "man pays for woman" obligation sounds sexist. Not to mention, it sounds entitled: the woman isn't doing the man a favor by going on a date with him; she doesn't have to go on the date with him. A date is supposed to be mutually enjoyable. I hate when people says "whoever asks, pays" like a female sedditor just said. Because it takes either malicious selfishness or blatant obliviousness to say something like that, when the guy is the one asking out the girl the vast majority of the time. When you say "whoever asks, pays", you're essentially saying "the guy pays".
Financial reasons. Seeing that you're a 20 year old college student, I doubt that you make much money. Going on dinner dates for any extended period of time is going to take a toll on your wallet. Even a basic meal at McDonald's--don't take your date to McDonald's--already puts you into the double digits if you're paying for two. If you're living and eating at home or you're on a college meal plan, you should not have to unnecessarily spend such significant part of whatever money you have on other people's food.
Terrible frame. Feeling obliged to pay puts you in a needy frame. Even if you were paying to be nice, there is still a needy message being expressed. It comes off as you supplicating. That you need to pay to gain one's favor. Normal people don't feel obliged to pay for another person in mutually enjoyable interactions. This obligation thing just seems weird when put into context of other social interactions. When you invite your friends to hang out, you don't feel obliged to pay for any of them. So why does it change when you're hanging out with a girl?
[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
Well articulated comment, you make some great points. Reason is telling me that paying for a stranger's/woman's meal is stupid but there is obviously the expectation, however slight, that I'll be paying.
How do/can I let her know that I won't be paying for her meal? I was hoping for a playful line or a conversational transition to say it appropriately. I'd rather not be like "Sounds great, see you at 8 on Thursday :) P.S. - You're paying for your own meal"
Edit: From an evolutionary perspective, there are arguments to be made as to why men are expected to provide for their mate. Even though contraception has made those arguments lose much of their power, I still think they have merit.
[–]TheCuriousDude 1 point2 points3 points 12 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Just say you're going Dutch when you get there.
From an evolutionary perspective
From an evolutionary perspective, we were expected to kill other males for the right to copulate with females and control territory.
A fully evolved human male in college in the 21st century shouldn't bother himself with (poorly understood) evolutionary psychology and other pop psychology nonsense.
Point taken, thanks. I suppose it's just weird living in a society where our socialization and brains aren't up to speed with the reality of our situation. It takes conscious effort by both genders to recognize our roles and change social norms to ones that are more practical.
[–]drifting_ 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Here is my take on it. I don't want to spend too much money on a girl that isn't overly invested in me. I've been on a number of dates where the girls have hardly said anything to me after and cut contact; no big deal, but I don't wanna spend $50+ on a couple of hours with a girl and kiss her a few times then never see her again.
I just take them to a local cafe usually. It comes to $10-$15 most of the time which I'm happy to pay for cause its not that much when you're working full time. Plus cafes are a casual local where you can joke around and things aren't too serious.
Dinner dates to me seem too formal with new girls. If i've known her for a bit and we click well and there is a decent amount of shared investment in each other i'll then decide. Even then I like to just split the bill.
[–][deleted] -2 points-1 points0 points 12 years ago (19 children) | Copy Link
Here's my rule no matter who the company is (and I'm female if that helps): whomever asks, pays. Unless other options have been discussed, I lived by this rule when dating. If you ask me to dinner, you should at least assume you're going to pay. If she offered to split the bill or pay her own, then so be it. Also, what exactly does sex have to do with it? What should change simply because you've started sleeping together?
[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 12 years ago* (6 children) | Copy Link
Sex, in my opinion, shows her level of emotional investment in the relationship. If she's sleeping with me she has obviously made up her mind that she likes me and is very attracted to me, making me more comfortable with committing my precious financial resources to her.
Edit: And let's be serious, how often do women actually directly ask men out for dates? It's the man's job to take initiative and set dates, that's not even a question here.
[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 12 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link
First or second date, sure. I don't ever ask a guy out on the first or second date. For no other reason than being pretty introverted and shy with people I don't know. Passed the second date, I'll throw out plans for 3rd, 4th, etc.
[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link
I always have sex with a girl by the 3rd or 4th date. I could maybe see waiting for the 5th date. But by then I'm obviously comfortable to pay. Since we've had sex and the relationship dynamic is more open and comfortable, having a candid discussion about who's paying or budget shortages becomes much less of a big deal, making my question here void.
[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
I understand what you're saying. Unfortunately, for most females it's exactly the opposite. We were raised with the whole "if he wants to have sex with me, he needs to earn it," mentality. Probably because of the way we were raised. Most of us have parents that dated in the 70s and 80s when that was how things were done. It seems as though you are searching for an enigma. A progressive girl with modernized values that still shaves her armpits. Good luck!
[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 12 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
A feminine woman who understands she doesn't deserve free shit by having a vagina isn't asking for that much. Your comments are having the opposite of your desired affect.
Your version of "earn it" renders you to nothing more than a complicated prostitute, which now that I think about it is exactly the type of woman I'd like to avoid. Thanks for your help.
[–]iswear2drunkimnotgod 1 point2 points3 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Preach
[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
It wasn't my intention to piss you off. I was merely suggesting that you are ahead of your time. The truth is most 20ish girls expect you to pay because you are the men. They expect it because that's what their parents (mom and dad) have instilled in them. Maybe next generation will be more forward thinking (as this is generally what happens).
[–]CharlesODriscoll -2 points-1 points0 points 12 years ago (11 children) | Copy Link
In my experience, if a girl is asking me out, she's not worth my time. Most of the time, I'm asking her out, so going by this logic, I would pay every time, and thus the concept of requiring financial, physical, and emotional investment is rendered void.
[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 12 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link
Why wouldn't the girl that asks you out first be worth your time? From a girl's pov, that shows great confidence and confidence is sexy, no?
[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Agreed, but the chances of being boldly asked on a date by a beautiful woman are essentially the same as seeing Bigfoot.
[–]TheCuriousDude 1 point2 points3 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
The idea is that a sexy woman would already have so many options that there would have to be underlying reasons for her to need to ask you out: the majority of guys don't find her physically attractive, she has a shitty personality, etc.
These are obviously presumptuous inferences to make (she could just be shy and awkward), but a lot of men are conditioned from experience to question why a beautiful woman is asking them out.
[–]CharlesODriscoll -1 points0 points1 point 12 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link
You're saying that because women find confidence attractive in men, men must also find it attractive in women?
[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 12 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link
No. I didn't say "must". Where did you see the word must? I just asked a question based off my experience with men that converse. Many have said confidence is sexy.
[–]CharlesODriscoll 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link
If men say that to you on dates, does that mean it is necessarily something they find attractive, or something they want you to think they find attractive? There is a difference.
[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 12 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link
No guy has said it to me on a date. I think I'd be slightly offended if they did. I meant male friends, just friends whom I talk to about being so shy and introverted. They don't understand why.
[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 12 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
Confident men find confident women sexy, period. Their personalities will mesh together much more nicely if they share personality traits. I do think that expressions of confidence vary by gender, so a woman can still be very confident without asking men out on dates.
[–]CharlesODriscoll 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
I've always been very confident in myself, but I guess confidence was never really been something that made me pop a boner over a girl.
Ya know, I always thought that confident men didn't really give a shit about her confidence so much as T&A, fitness, supportive personality. A woman with those characteristics may have confidence simply because she was born with advantages, but it is not her confidence that is attracting men.
[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
You're right that confidence won't attract (many) men, but it will keep the confident ones coming back. It's a trait one would want in a girlfriend.
[–]CharlesODriscoll1 point 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Perhaps. If one is in the market for a girlfriend.
[–]puaCurveBall[M] -1 points0 points1 point 12 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
Hello, this post is getting removed for being too basic and already answered.
Your post is answered in the SIDEBAR
I would also recommend reading 10-20 of the top posts on Seddit: FOUND HERE
If you really want an answer, then please repost in /r/askseddit (not askReddit, but ask SEDDIT).
Thank you!
Very, very heavy handed removal. We were having excellent discussion with points that I wasn't able to find on the sidebar. Not cool, man.
[–]puaCurveBall 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
The topic of who pays is one of the most common and beaten to death topics we have. Multiple copies weekly. No joke.
Perhaps it's a topic that needs more discussion instead of being removed. I'm a very active sedditor and haven't seen it once. Finding anything on dating in the sidebar was a pain too and there wasn't much of it. Either way, the input I did get while the thread was up helped me a lot.
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[–]asad16 1 point2 points3 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]TheCuriousDude 1 point2 points3 points (3 children) | Copy Link
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[–]drifting_ 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
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