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mayonesa
[–]mode7plz 2 points3 points4 points 12 years ago* (8 children) | Copy Link
Why is this in /r/MensRights ? This has nothing to do with Men's Rights IMO.
I've been in this same position and it sucks, but this guy sounds like a passive-aggressive douche canoe. A fucking spreadsheet?
It's called learning to communicate. Try caring about your partner and what they might be going through. Maybe talk to them about your concerns, ask if anything is going on with them, talk about your sexual wants and needs in the relationship, and work together. After all that has been tried, then a reasonable adult will consider if the relationship should continue.
It sounds like this guy wants to be with a brainless fuck-hole, and that's fine, but it doesn't sound like that is who he married.
EDIT: missed a word
[–]mayonesa[S] -1 points0 points1 point 12 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link
On the contrary, he solved this problem with data.
He told her what he wanted, she gave him a pile of excuses, so he took the upper hand by first hitting her up with the data and second, withholding another kind of affection.
[–]mode7plz 1 point2 points3 points 12 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link
withholding another kind of affection
This is something that a sociopath does, or at least someone with extreme interpersonal dysfunction. Having honest conversation is what adults do. Trying to entrap someone you claim to love by recording their actions to throw back at them, is something children do.
The cherry on top is that he cut off communication with her afterwards, like he wanted her to stew in it, to think about how she had wronged him, like that would help the relationship at all. We all feel hurt sometimes, and sometimes we feel so bad that we want our loved ones to hurt also, but that is a feeling, and to act on it is pronounced childishness.
Sam Harris says that when it comes down to it we have a choice between conversation and violence. (Although he was specifically referring to Faith as a conversation stopper, I feel like it applies elsewhere) This isn't physical violence, but I think it falls on that side of the wall. It's encroaching on a sort of emotional abuse, or psychological violence.
hitting her up with the data
The other way to 'hit someone up' with data is to say something as simple as "Honey, can we talk about our relationship? I am having some issues with it and I would like to talk about it and solve it together." And then you can proceed to communicate your feelings, judgments and data.
Although, even after broaching the subject like this, I think that busting out a spreadsheet of recorded responses would be completely counterproductive. If I was the partner, I would feel invaded and betrayed and so I would probably put up a wall. Not a recipe for a win-win outcome.
[–]mayonesa[S] -1 points0 points1 point 12 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link
Having honest conversation is what adults do.
This is what happens AFTER the honest conversation is blown off by one partner. He told her what he wanted, she didn't do the same: excuses instead.
[–]mode7plz 1 point2 points3 points 12 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
Did she post an extended version of the history that proceeded this? If so, could you paste it.
My arguments look like they do because I'm only acting on the information contained in the image you posted. At face value, it seems that he did not initiate honest conversation. We only know that he attempted to initiate sex, and we don't even know how that was done, we just have his account that it did happen.
Attempting to initiate sex is not the same as attempting to initiate honest communication. Although sex can be an incredible bonding and connecting experience, and could be thought of as physical communication of a sort (some would argue spiritual communication too), it doesn't seem to have the capacity to solve certain issues in the same way that verbal communication does.
When verbal communication is honest, buffered with love for your partner, and you use restraint and active listening skills, then it seems to me there is almost nothing that it can't solve.
By her account, this was out of left field. So we have him sending a snarky XLS file, and her being shocked. That's all I'm seeing right now, but maybe there is more.
[–][deleted] -1 points0 points1 point 12 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
At face value, it seems that he did not initiate honest conversation.
What are you basing this interpretation on ? On the fact that he emailed her a spreadsheet, alone? He did initiate honest communication. Conversation is quickly derailed by committed women.
That husband took the pro active, fuck you bitch attitude instead of lingering in a sex-poor, miserable marriage like most men do. I hope he ditches the useless bitch. What does he even need her for ? She isnt having any children ! What the fuck did he marry her for if not for sex ? Fucking friendship ? Well that's a failure as well.
This is the current state of marriage https://dontmarry.wordpress.com/2009/07/23/married-men-post-here-if-you-hate-your-life-2/
[–]mode7plz 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
What are you basing this interpretation on ?
On the text contained in OP's image. It did not mention a period of friction or attempted communication, and in fact she used the phrase 'out of left field' as I noted before.
Obviously whatever happened in real life is more complex than a simple screenshot of a reddit post can capture, and any person who writes said post is only telling the story from their subjective viewpoint, but this entire discussion is based on the data provided in OP's post.
Sending someone a spreadsheet of their recorded behavior and then cutting off contact with them is on the opposite end of the spectrum from honest communication.
Conversation is quickly derailed by committed women.
Conversations can be derailed by any person who is committed to not communicating or is committed to not solving a problem. People do this, not just women. We can hope that no one would ever have to be in a relationship with someone like this, but of course that isn't realistic.
Obviously I can't know for sure, and this is only my personal interpretation from OP's post, but the woman seems like a person capable of honest communication. She is distraught over her partner acting like this, and is looking for input and help on the situation, which seems to me to be the behavior of someone looking to solve a problem. Based on this I don't see her as someone who would want to silence, squash or derail a genuine problem that her partner had brought up to her.
People who care about their partners do not do this. The kind of people who do this are people who are spinning partners like plates, for sex only, and have just reached the end of their patience with them.
That husband took the pro active, fuck you bitch attitude instead of lingering in a sex-poor, miserable marriage
You are using an informal fallacy called the 'false dichotomy' here. These are not the only 2 choices he had at the time. You are skipping over honest communication between committed adults who love each other.
This. He acted fairly well and efficiently. She'll be the one crying herself to sleep while he has fun virtually ditching her. Before that, he was the one feeling miserable because she was withholding sex. Oh sorry, she wasnt withtholding, she just wasnt feeling like it.
I can't tell if that is sarcasm or not, but to be clear, someone withholding sex as a power-play is a person treating their partner like a child, and is in a childish relationship.
On the other hand, someone who is just genuinely not feeling like sex, even for a month and a half, is someone who exists in the world and is subject to it's chaos and it's ability to disrupt one's plans despite one's best efforts.
Sometimes you just don't feel attractive or safe. Sometimes it is physical, psychological, or chemical. Even the most well organized, self assured, physically fit, self aware, reflective people can have phases like of low sex drive. No one is immune to it.
Obviously if it is pronounced, and long term, then it can collide with your relationship and then it has to be dealt with or you risk the relationship changing or dissolving.
He acted fairly well and efficiently
He acted on his own physical interests while seemingly not displaying empathy or compassion. This doesn't fly in relationships between functioning adults. Actions like this are brushing up against the outskirts of psychopathology.
[–]genderbent 2 points3 points4 points 12 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
couples whose libidos don't match aren't a men's rights issue.
[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
couples whose libidos don't match
This is real in your mind ?
Why would the cow give out her milk if she gets payed for it regardless?
[–]mode7plz 1 point2 points3 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I think this post is over the line enough to justify me tagging you as 'misogynistic fool'
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5aAWlwKyavU
[–]Spiryt -1 points0 points1 point 12 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link
As Dan Savage put it:
"If you don't milk the cow you married, your cow has the means to go out and find someone who will."
[–]mode7plz 1 point2 points3 points 12 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link
Certainly, there is a place to talk about getting your needs met in a relationship, and what that means in terms of keeping a partner in your life or changing directions.
But people are not cows, and many men, myself included, are not in a relationship simply to have their dick's milked.
[–]Spiryt 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link
People are not cows, but suddenly deciding you want sex 1-2x per month while expecting your partner to remain faithful is emotional violence. It amounts to "I'm done with regular sex... and so are you."
[–]mode7plz 1 point2 points3 points 12 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link
I think there might be another term a bit short of emotional violence that best fits that kind of decision, but certainly it isn't a recipe for a good partnership, and to just decide something like that with certainty and no communication probably says you don't respect your partner very much, or hold their experience at a similar level of importance as your own.
That being said, the woman in question hasn't made a non-negotiable, secret, conscious decision to drastically downsize their sex life. Or at least, it doesn't read that way from her post. It seems more like she is going through something, which is something that might be solved by one or more conversations that involve empathy and collaboration and creativity. Conversations that really exemplify the idea of a partnership.
Sometimes life just gets in the way, or a wave goes over your head and you don't realize that your sex life has been in the toilet for a couple months and the ramifications that has for your partner. That is unfortunate, but it is a fact of life, and a fact of the ebb and flow of a partnership, and it isn't a sinister act like the one you are describing.
Regular communication saves relationships, best case scenario. Worst case, you find out from communicating that your partner now has very different wants and needs, and is unwilling to compromise, and you leave, as an adult.
[–]Spiryt 1 point2 points3 points 12 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
I agree the man's approach is immature and inappropriate - but at the same time I don't think he'd be keeping a 2 month record if this hadn't been going on for much, much longer.
Maybe I just spent too much time on r/deadbedrooms.
If it had been going on for much longer, then that definitely sucks for him, but I still think that keeping track like this while skipping over a heart-to-heart says a lot about the guy. Or maybe not, I know that lack of sex can be frustrating as fuck, and makes you do stupid-ass things.
I don't think I ever stooped to excel, but I definitely went down the 'keeping a mental list' road, not with sex but with other relationship issues. Once you start keeping score, or collecting evidence like you're about to testify against the mafia, you done goofed.
she is going through something
That something is called marriage. Get a clue. https://dontmarry.wordpress.com/2009/07/23/married-men-post-here-if-you-hate-your-life-2/
While I have some compassion for the people represented on that blog, at the end of the day it is a litany of people refusing to take responsibility for their circumstances and their own actions. It seems like you are on of their ilk.
Certainly, there is a place to talk about getting your needs met in a relationship
Fuck you. You dont get to tell people how and when they can communicate. You go marry the cow and stfu.
There are many kinds of relationships out there. I'm not commenting on your personally preferred type of relationship, so your offense isn't warranted.
The kind I am talking about is a relationship built on things like love, trust, connection, compassion, physical and emotional support. In this kind of relationship, there is a place for honest communication about each other's sexual and emotional needs, and how they can work together to have their needs met.
[–][deleted] -4 points-3 points-2 points 12 years ago (16 children) | Copy Link
marriage is a sexual contract. it should be 90% yes. he married you thinking he would get sex. ughhhhhhh. just another woman who wants a man to support her without anything in return.
[–]mode7plz 2 points3 points4 points 12 years ago (12 children) | Copy Link
I think you're in the wrong sub.
[–][deleted] -2 points-1 points0 points 12 years ago (11 children) | Copy Link
ugh why
[–]mode7plz 2 points3 points4 points 12 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link
I think you are looking for /r/TheRedPill or maybe some sort of sub for a Christian Conservative offshoot.
marriage is a sexual contract
How about 'ugh' for that? Grow up and start treating other people like people.
It is a sexual contract. From the part of the woman. The man commits his labor, the woman her sexuality.
What would she say if he replied "I don't feel like it" when she asked him to work?
A marriage is not a sexual contract or a work contract. Do you live Saudi Arabia?
[–][deleted] -2 points-1 points0 points 12 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
then why was thos posted here in the first plase
I think it was posted here because OP is confused about the nature of the Men's Rights movement. Mistakes happen.
[–][deleted] -2 points-1 points0 points 12 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link
also dude, the same goes for females. if they are married, that means they get sex, right
[–]saoran 1 point2 points3 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
both partners will have to be understanding of each other's needs and circumstances.
communication is how it is done. OP's husband acted like a spoiled brat, sent her a shitty Email and cut off contact.
This belongs in marriage counseling not Men's rights
[–]mode7plz 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
I pity da fool who has such a 2-dimensional idea of what a relationship is. Sex happens when 2 people want to have sex, not because they happen to be married, or for any other reason.
And if the only sex that someone has ever had is because their partner thinks they owe it to them, as some sort of bronze-age contact or for any other reason, then they are missing the fuck out. That's 1 step away from Louis C K masturbating with his dead wife's hand.
EDIT: word
Sex happens when 2 people want to have sex
Not when a sexual contract is signed. Just like work doesnt happen when a person feels like working. Just like husbands are committed to working their asses off for their spouse and children.
A marriage is not a sexual contract. Please pay attention to the language we have all agreed on.
Sexual contracts don't exist anymore except possibly somewhere in the middle east, where acute misogyny still thrives in a systemic way.
husbands are committed to working their asses off for their spouse and children
'Husbands' is a group made up of many people. Some are lazy assholes, some are hard working genuine people, some are infanticidal maniacs, some are pop stars, some are judges, and some abandon their families to uncertain ends while some provide a traditional family setting until the day they die.
Your comment is nonsensical.
[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Non, that means they get the fruits of their husband's labor.
[–]saoran 1 point2 points3 points 12 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
just another woman who wants a man to support her without anything in return
The woman in OP appears to be working her ass off. your comment is real unfair.
That explains why she is losing her sex drive. Not because of the work fatigue, but because she feels dissatisfied with her marriage arrangement in which she cannot rest while her husbands breaks his back. Even so, that wouldnt be enough for her to feel aroused. She would also need to dread losing her privileged position in case she didnt satisfy her husband.
You sure are reading into this a lot more than is warranted. There isn't anything in here to justify your assumptions about their relationship.
Could it be that you have an inherent bias against women, and believe that all marriages are parasitic relationships?
She would also need to dread losing her privileged position in case she didnt satisfy her husband.
Hahaha Jesus Fucking Christ, you sure know turns women on! Nothing better than fear of being abandoned physically and emotionally to get those juices flowing! FUCK that is so goddamn sexy.
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