Gender wage gap

username2136 · 2019-11-15T23:31:50+00:00

Look up Dr Shaym. He does a video on the wage gap and touches on it on others but I don’t think he has provided any peer reviewed studies. I think it is also worth mentioning how much paying employees make the budget for a business and how much money they would save if they only hired women. Those are pretty good places to start. Also check out Thomas Sowell. He is an economist and has been debunking that damn myth since the late 70s.

Cripplenippleripple · 2019-11-15T23:36:04+00:00

https://www.bls.gov/news.release/pdf/atus.pdf

It is on working hours men v women.

Right above “Household Activities in 2018”

Oncefa2 · 2019-11-16T01:21:29+00:00

Women have less of an incentive to maximize their income because they can take advantage of men and the money that men earn.
Women on average have more money than men, despite earning less, due to divorce laws and beneficial societal norms that transfers money from men to women.
When household income is counted, women actually do earn more money than men (basically if you count half of a family's joint income, marriage makes it so women on average not only have more money, but also have a higher income, compared to men).
As a result, the wage gap is really just a representative of an amount of economic privilege that women have. Women earn less money because they don't need to earn as much as men do, and therefore chose not to.
Many women who want kids also look for jobs with better flexibility so they can spend more time with their kids, and those jobs often pay less.
The wage gap only actually exists for married women. Never married single women earn something like 20% more than men on average. Millennial women who largely haven't had kids yet also earn more than men. I don't have sources for either of those so hopefully you can find them, or someone else will post them.
Lesbian women earn more than strait women, and this is because they anticipate that they can't use a man for money.
Women working unionized jobs also earn less because they're less likely to work overtime, and more likely to take unpaid time off. The unionized wage gap is similar to the non unionized wage gap, indicating that this is likely a major factor.
When you compare men and women working the same job, the gap shrinks to 1.6% globally, and 0.8% in the UK (the US wasn't on the survey). That study did not look at several factors though, including seniority, overtime pay (and unpaid time off), and work experience. Basically the more variables you try to control for, the smaller the gap gets.

Other people have stated these points better than me, but hopefully it gives you a good place to start.

Sources coming in next post (I hit the character limit)...

Historybuffman · 2019-11-16T05:15:59+00:00

Christina Hoff Sommers did a wonderful piece for Time magazine and broke a lot of it down:

https://time.com/3222543/wage-pay-gap-myth-feminism/

And if you are looking for a primary source (not a study), check out the US Bureau of Labor Statistics (BLS) labor data. This would be considered a primary source as well, and someone has already linked to it.

There should also be links in CHS's article.

Start with the raw data from the BLS, and use the Time article to bring up the arguments on why it is wrong.

You can start from something like this:

[Intro paragraph] The wage gap is a hotly debated topic in the current political and social climate. (blah blah blah) and so I will try to persuade you to believe that the truth is much different than you have probably heard.

According to the US Bureau of Labor Statistics (name, p#) men make [%] more than women, as a WHOLE. However, also according to the US Bureau of Labor Statistics, men also work [#] more hours per week than women. Once we account for the additional earnings for men (INCLUDING overtime pay because men average over 40 hours per week, while women average under 40), this gap is reduced to nearly nothing at all, and we have not even begun to discuss other topics.

You may also want to point out that Census data shows that unmarried young women outearn men by as much as 21% in some areas, especially metropolitan areas:

https://www.bls.gov/cew/

That should be enough to get you started. When I wrote my papers in college, I liked to have one primary source per topic, with 1-3 secondary sources/articles as support per paragraph.

Good luck!

my-third-account3 · 2019-11-15T23:35:15+00:00

I don’t know if Ben Shapiro has talked about the “wage gap” but if he has you should definitely take notes

OrionTheWolf · 2019-11-16T00:04:22+00:00

The cliff notes are that it ignores variables such as level of employment, years worked at a company, level of education and even hours worked. They took only gender and wages into account. I’m sure this can give you a head start in areas to research if you hit a wall

EricAllonde · 2019-11-16T05:35:12+00:00

I suggest you start with this:

https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2018/03/29/half-uk-public-believe-gender-pay-gap-will-never-c

Only 20% of people actually know what the gender pay gap is, i.e. how it's calculated.

71% of people wrongly think that the gender pay gap, and reported numbers for it such as "77 cents for every dollar a man earns", show a difference in earnings for the same work. It doesn't.

The gender pay gap narrative is a myth. The difference in earnings is a result of a "gender personal choice about work gap". When you factor in the different personal choices that the two genders make, the earnings gap disappears.

You can lead into this by asking people questions like this:

"If you work full time at 40 hours per week, while you friend Bob loves to go surfing and makes time for it by only working 20 hours per week, should Bob earn the same amount of money as you? Should he be paid the same for working 20 hours that you earn for working 40 hours?"

Any sane person will answer "No" and by doing so they implicitly accepted that it's legitimate for personal choices to affect personal income. The gender pay gap myth unravels right there.

Now all that's left is to prove that when men & women actually do the exact same work, they earn exactly the same. The Korn Ferry Hay Group study put that question to bed for good. It compared salaries for men & women in the same job role, with the same job function at the same company. Result: no gender pay gap.

https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2017/08/01/are-women-paid-less-than-men-for-the-same-work

The Korn Ferry study is the gold standard for this space. It has a mountain of data (8 million employees in 33 countries) and does the best job so far of actually comparing apples with apples. Result: worldwide average gap of just 1.6%, in the UK only 0.8%.

One of the few personal choices this study did not account for is vacation days taken per year. On average women take more days of vacation time than men do, even before they have kids. I suspect that this explains most, perhaps all, of the small remaining earnings gap reported by this study. Each extra day of vacation per year produces an earnings gap of about 0.5%, so women taking an extra 3 days per year would cover the 1.6% global average.

Feminists are increasingly showing signs that they know they've lost the battle to convince people of the gender pay gap myth. So now they're retreating to even more spurious claims, e.g.

"OK, personal earnings are a product of work choices. But men are oppressing women into making those choices! Men are preventing women from choosing to go into STEM careers, so give us millions of dollars to nag & harangue girls into choosing STEM careers that they just aren't interested in. Husbands are forcing their wives to stay home after having kids, and we need to liberate those poor, abused women!"

Of course, their whole narrative falls apart as soon as you go and talk to women about the work choices they've made. I'm still yet to meet a single woman working today who says she was wanted to go into STEM but was prevented from doing so, that is for any reason other than not having the required academic results to qualify. Every woman I've asked about this insists that she chose her occupation herself. Which makes perfect sense, because women have agency - something that modern feminists bizarrely deny while grasping for female victimhood. And when a couple has children, it's up to the man & woman themselves to decide who works, who stays home and for how long. It would be a very bad idea for the government, or feminists, to step in and impose an external decision on that couple.

Good luck demolishing this feminist nonsense. It's completely bogus and quite straightforward to demonstrate that fact. Have fun!

apeironman · 2019-11-16T15:18:17+00:00

https://www.forbes.com/sites/avivahwittenbergcox/2018/09/23/gender-paygap-uber-case-study/#5431dc6cb555

https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2017/08/01/are-women-paid-less-than-men-for-the-same-work

iainmf · 2019-11-16T07:07:53+00:00

Here is an approach you could consider:

Rather than arguing that there is no gender wage gap, argue that it is okay for some people to earn different amounts of money than other people. If you can demonstrate that it okay (or even preferable) for different people to earn different amounts of money, then the burden is on proponents of the wage gap to demonstrate that a wage gap is not okay.

As a general rule is good to start with something that nearly everyone can agree with. You want the reader to be agreeing with you as much as possible to so they are not on the defensive.

For example, most people would agree that people should be able to choose to earn less money if they don't prioritise material gain. It's completely acceptable for a woman who works 20 hours a week in a beachside cafe so she can spend as much time surfing as possible to earn less than a woman who is passionate about building up her business and spends 60 hours a week running her company.

You can also argue that it is important to reward people for making sacrifices, that employers should be able to pay people more to make undesirable jobs more desirable, that people who have spent a lot of money on education should get paid more because they bring more value to the business etc.

Once you've established all of the legitimate reasons for paying people differently, then you can move on to the wage gap and whittle it down with all of the reasons legitimate reasons for it you have already established.

Gender wage gap

Comments

Women own a majority of wealth

Gunelius, S. (2010). Women Making Economic Strides and Not Slowing Down. Forbes / ForbesWomen. Available at: https://www.forbes.com/sites/work-in-progress/2010/07/28/women-making-economic-strides-and-not-slowing-down/

Spending, control of male economic resources in relationships

Fabry, S. (2011). Women Dominate The Global Market Place; Here Are 5 Keys To Reaching Them. Available from: https://www.fastcompany.com/1663594/women-dominate-the-global-market-place-here-are-5-keys-to-reaching-them

http://www.genderleadershipgroup.com/the-inclusionary-leadership-blog/210

Elliott, Hannah (2018, February 13) Luxury Automakers Are Finally Discovering the Power of Women Buyers. Bloomberg Businessweek, February 19, 2018 Issue. Available from: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-02-13/luxury-automakers-are-finally-discovering-the-power-of-women-buyers

Gender expense gap: being a woman is cheaper than being a man

”We’ve all heard of the gender ‘income gap’, but what about the ‘expense gap’?”. Fighting4Fair. Available at: http://www.fighting4fair.com/uncategorized/weve-all-heard-of-the-gender-income-gap-but-is-there-an-expense-gap-working-draft/

Gender wage-gap myth

The Economist. (2017). Are women paid less than men for the same work?: When all job differences are accounted for, the pay gap almost disappears. The Economist. Available at: https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2017/08/01/are-women-paid-less-than-men-for-the-same-work

Korn Ferry. (2016). Gender Pay Analysis: Technical methodology and data report. Available from: http://info.haygroupupdate.com/rs/494-VUC-482/images/KFHG_Gender%20Pay%20Gap_Technical%20Report.pdf

Drydakis, N. (2019). Sexual orientation and labor market outcomes. IZA World of Labor 2019: 111 doi: 10.15185/izawol.111.v2. [HTML] Available from: https://wol.iza.org/articles/sexual-orientation-and-labor-market-outcomes/long

Fearn, Hannah. (2014). "Lesbians earn more than straight women - but gay men are penalised". The Independent. Available at: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/lesbians-earn-more-than-straight-women--but-gay-men-are-penalised-9934289.html

Lips, K. A. (2016). Don’t Buy into the Gender Pay Gap Myth. Forbes. Available from: https://www.forbes.com/sites/karinagness/2016/04/12/dont-buy-into-the-gender-pay-gap-myth/#5b65f3322596

Phelan, J. (2018). Harvard Study: "Gender Wage Gap" Explained Entirely by Work Choices of Men and Women. FOUNDATION for ECONOMIC EDUCATION. Available at: https://fee.org/articles/harvard-study-gender-pay-gap-explained-entirely-by-work-choices-of-men-and-women//amp

Bolotnyy, V., & Emanuel, N. (2018). Why Do Women Earn Less Than Men? Evidence from Bus and Train Operators. Working paper. Available from https://scholar.harvard.edu/files/bolotnyy/files/be_gendergap.pdf

Women often paid more for the same work

Wakabayashi, Daisuke (2019, March 4). Google Finds It’s Underpaying Many Men as It Addresses Wage Equity. The New York Times. Retrieved October 21, 2019, from https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/04/technology/google-gender-pay-gap.html

Sherwin, A. (2018, January 30). BBC men to get pay rises as review rejects gender discrimination claims. iNews. Retrieved October 21, 2019, from https://inews.co.uk/news/media/bbc-men-pay-rise-gender-514047

Travis, Clay (2019, July 30). The US Women’s Soccer Team Is Actually Paid More Than the Men. Outkick The Coverage. Retrieved October 21, 2019, from https://www.outkickthecoverage.com/the-us-womens-soccer-team-is-actually-paid-more-than-the-men/

Teather, C. (2017). "Gender pay gap in modelling industry sees women earn 75% more than men". Evening Standard. Available at: https://www.standard.co.uk/fashion/news/gender-pay-gap-in-modelling-industry-sees-women-earn-75-more-than-men-a3597656.html

Lublin, Joann. (2017). "Though Outnumbered, Female CEOs Earn More Than Male Chiefs ". The Wall Street Journal. Available at: https://www.wsj.com/articles/women-ceos-dont-get-paid-less-than-men-in-big-business-they-make-more-1496223001

Hiring discrimination against men

Phillips, Owen (2015, April 22). Could It Be? Researchers Find A Hiring Bias That Favors Women. National Public Radio. Retrieved October 21, 2019, from https://www.npr.org/sections/ed/2015/04/22/396672571/could-it-be-researchers-find-a-hiring-bias-that-favors-women

Boffey, Daniel (2019, June 18). Top engineering university to open jobs exclusively to women. The Guardian. Retrieved October 21, 2019, from https://www.theguardian.com/education/2019/jun/18/top-engineering-university-to-open-jobs-exclusively-to-women

INSIDE MAN. (2014). "Male graduates caught in gender employment gap". insideMAN. Available at: http://www.inside-man.co.uk/2014/07/01/male-graduates-caught-in-gender-employment-gap/

An example of a job posting recruiting only women. AAS Job Register. Available at: https://jobregister.aas.org/ad/2220db4f. See also: [Twitter advertisement] https://mobile.twitter.com/JaniceFiamengo/status/1121387929560129536

Viellaris, R. (2016). Australian Bureau of Statistics to discriminate against hiring men. The Courier Mail. Available at: https://www.couriermail.com.au/news/queensland/australian-bureau-of-statistics-to-discriminate-against-hiring-men/news-story/77143fa1b5fa1967a29a86a83b9fb742

Williams, W. M., and Ceci, S. J. (2015). National hiring experiments reveal 2:1 faculty preference for women on STEM tenure track. Proc. Natl. Acad. Sci. U.S.A. 112, 5360–5365. doi: 10.1073/pnas.1418878112. [PDF] Available at: https://www.pnas.org/content/pnas/112/17/5360.full.pdf

Bjerke, J. (2012). People Management Finds Widespread HR Bias against Men and Overweight Women. Recruiter. Available at: https://www.recruiter.com/i/people-management-finds-widespread-hr-bias-against-men-and-overweight-women/

Internal Documents: Swedish Technical University Cancels Positions If Male Applicant Found Most Competent. Academic Rights Watch. Available from: http://academicrightswatch.com/?p=2915

Female biases in interviews, resumes, and referrals / networking

Turner, Karen. (2016, July 25). This tool gender-swapped the voices of tech job candidates. Here’s what happened. The Washington Post. Retrieved from: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/innovations/wp/2016/07/15/this-tool-gender-swapped-the-voices-of-tech-job-candidates-heres-what-happened/

Begley, Sharon. (2015). Academics rate women job applicants higher than identical men: study. REUTERS. Available at: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-science-gender/academics-rate-women-job-applicants-higher-than-identical-men-study-idUSKBN0N421420150413?irpc=932

Belot, H. (2017). "Blind recruitment trial to boost gender equality making things worse, study reveals". ABC News. Available at: http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-06-30/bilnd-recruitment-trial-to-improve-gender-equality-failing-study/8664888?pfmredir=sm

Title	Gender wage gap
Author	jmoneyiac
Upvotes	8
Comments	14
Date	November 15, 2019 11:14 PM UTC (6 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/dwymll/gender_wage_gap/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/gender-wage-gap.864894 https://theredarchive.com/post/864894