Why are you still here?

[–]kloo2yoo[M] 9 points10 points11 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Alanna 8 points9 points10 points 14 years ago (14 children) | Copy Link

[–]thingsarebad -4 points-3 points-2 points 14 years ago (13 children) | Copy Link

[–]Alanna 6 points7 points8 points 14 years ago (12 children) | Copy Link

[+]thingsarebad -7 points-6 points-5 points 14 years ago (11 children) | Copy Link

[–]Alanna 8 points9 points10 points 14 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link

[+]thingsarebad -8 points-7 points-6 points 14 years ago* (9 children) | Copy Link

[–]Alanna 9 points10 points11 points 14 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

I'm not saying that a significant number of women aren't spoiled bitches. My husband and I are actively resisting falling prey to the "princess syndrome" with our one-year-old daughter.

It was your assertion that nearly all or most women are like this, based on what I suspect is first and second hand anecdotal evidence, that I took issue with, and what I called misogyny. Your blog post links, while interesting as male perspectives, are not credible citations any more than your opinion is.

My own experience has been the vast majority of women I know are loving wives and mothers and girlfriends who respect and take care of their men, and are loved and respected and taken care of in return. I hear about the entitlement princesses, I read articles about them, but I find it impossible to tell whether they are a small, but loud and obnoxious minority or the face of American womanhood today and me and my friends and female relations are the exceptions.

Incidentally, your implication that I'm just not paying attention, your odd reference to women as "creatures of the feminine variety," and your admonishment to not "find one little thing to disagree with and stomp my feet" does nothing to dispel my impression of you as a misogynist.

[+]thingsarebad -7 points-6 points-5 points 14 years ago* (7 children) | Copy Link

Over the top entitlement princesses may not be the majority, but almost all western women are entitled princesses to some degree.

Incidentally, your implication that I'm just not paying attention, your odd reference to women as "creatures of the feminine variety," and your admonishment to not "find one little thing to disagree with and stomp my feet" does nothing to dispel my impression of you as a misogynist.

I am saying you are acting like a child, it has nothing to do with your vagina, which it seems to me you are telling me you have one. Not that I care about your vagina, but with your entitlement complex you must assume I do. No, just because I'm a man doesn't mean I give two shits about whether you have a vag between your legs. I assure you I have absolutely zero interest in your vagina. Please get that through your head. Your assumption that because I am a man I am being "mean" to you because you have a vagina is very sexist, and your assumption that I care about your sex is also sexist.

And that proves you are a fan of misandry to some degree. See the following: http://thingsarebad.blogspot.com/2011/07/casually-throwing-out-accusations-of.html

And apparently as a man I'm not allowed to describe women as "creatures of the feminine variety" - my every action is suspect, hm?

And that's what I mean. Almost all western women are misandric to some degree. You are, too. And very likely all those "loving wives and mothers and girlfriends" are to some degree as well.

Half of marriages end in divorce, and women file the vast majority of them. 100 years ago the rate was 5%. That shows you what female privilege does.

Are western women entitlement princesses? Fuck yes, obviously. Even most of the conservative, traditional women expect men to care for them.

http://avoiceformen.com/2011/04/14/a-letter-to-traditional-women/

http://avoiceformen.com/2011/04/15/a-letter-to-traditional-women-revisited/

Women take advantage of their privilege throughout the western world, almost every single one, every single day. DUH.

I have never met a western woman who didn't come with myriad ridiculous expectations of what they want in a man. That's because almost all western women are entitlement princesses to some degree. Western women have this "I'm kind of a big deal" / "I deserve prince charming" / "I am never wrong" / "men have it better" / "men deserve punishment" mentality, or haven't you been paying attention?

Do you see the same public aloof demands about what they want in women, or about what they think of men, that you see in almost all western women? Hell no, not nearly as often, because western men aren't entitled princes. Western women, though? Spoiled brats.

[–]Alanna 8 points9 points10 points 14 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

Over the top entitlement princesses may not be the majority, but almost all western ~~women~~ people under 25 ~~are entitled princesses~~ have entitlement complexes to some degree.

FTFY. Got news for you, it ain't just women.

...and I get to a entire paragraph that seems awful obsessed with my vagina, considering that the purported point is how much you don't care about said organ.

I almost stopped reading there, but I'm skimming down-- bizarre conclusion-jumping-- specious logic-- baseless accusations of sexism misandry-- baseless accusations of entitlement-- oh! hey! an actual statistic. Too bad for you that it's completely wrong. Half of marriages do not end in divorce, and never did. This oft-quoted yet erroneous statistic comes from comparing the number of marriages in one year to the number of divorces in one year. The obvious problem with that (I'll spell it out, since you seem to have issues with logic) is that there is very little overlap between those two populations-- marriages don't usually end the same year they begin. So the divorces in 2010 aren't the marriages of 2010 breaking up (for the most part), so you're comparing apples to oranges. The true divorce rate peaked somewhere around 47% around 1980 and has been steadily decreasing (for a variety of reasons) ever since.

Having a blog doesn't automatically mean you have anything worthwhile to say, that isn't being said better or more credibly by someone else. The more of I read of you, the less I suspect you do.

[–]thingsarebad -5 points-4 points-3 points 14 years ago* (5 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 7 points8 points9 points 14 years ago (83 children) | Copy Link

[–]ManThoughts -3 points-2 points-1 points 14 years ago (24 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 7 points8 points9 points 14 years ago (23 children) | Copy Link

Not unfairly dumping at all--legally, ethically, and religiously, women are unfairly burdened in much of the rest of the world. If I get married to a woman in the Middle East, she can't go anywhere without me or a male member of my house with her. She can't vote or speak her mind, or even drive her own car in some places. I think that's fucked up, regardless of whether she likes it or not. It just so happens that many countries which legally enshrine sexism also culturally enshrine sexism. I no more want my daughter to be taught to think of herself as less of a person than any man than I want my son to be taught to think of himself as less of a person than any woman. That's why I attend no churches, because the communities around me enforce unequal standards for the sexes and I believe that to be wrong.

Same thing with submissiveness--I totally understand if my wife wants to stay home to raise future little ones. But that makes her no more submissive than me taking on extra work outside the home makes me submissive. If she feels that she must be submissive to me and my governance of the house, I feel like I'm no longer morally centered in my own libertarian ideals. It has less to do with her than with my own moral beliefs. I'd much rather find a place (whether here or abroad) and a woman to spend much of my life with in fruitful partnership, like a well-practiced athletic team.

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points1 point 14 years ago (12 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points6 points 14 years ago (11 children) | Copy Link

[–]Alanna 2 points3 points4 points 14 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 14 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Actually, at the moment, the US is trending isolationist.

I'm sorry--I got momentarily distracted by the national debt rising at a trillion dollars a year while we are enmeshed in 5 separate active theaters of engagement (undeclared wars) with both civilian and military forces, over 170 confirmed bases across the world (100 more than the British Empire at its height), and more money invested in military spending than every other nation on the planet combined. I take your idea of "trending isolationism" with extreme skepticism, especially since the current president ran as an anti-war candidate, received the Nobel Peace Prize as an anti-war president, and has continued and expanded upon the aggressive military policies of previous administrations. If that's worthy of a "Peace Prize," the very definition of "peace" is lost.

[–]Alanna 5 points6 points7 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points1 point 14 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 14 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 14 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 14 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points1 point 14 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]ManThoughts -3 points-2 points-1 points 14 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

I'm a libertarian too. And while I cringe at the treatment of women in other parts of the world, it is also not my place to impose my values on other cultures. Some people's vision of a healthy life is deeply authoritarian, especially when they believe their deity has created the law for them to abide by. Even when they have a choice for more freedom, they prefer restriction. For example, we see Muslims in North America and Europe demanding the right to live under Sharia Law as opposed to the laws of their particular country. It's not the environment I would choose to live in, but as a libertarian, I feel they should be allowed to run their communities as they see fit as much as possible.

Also, within the home a mutually-agreed upon authoritarian situation is not anti-libertarian. Families can be run like dictatorships, and as long as people aren't beating each other with frying pans, there's really not much I can say other than that I wouldn't run my household like that.

I think we pretty much agree. But my point is that other cultures have different values that mandate different gender roles, and a woman from that culture who lives by them may not be doing so out of weakness or learned helplessness. It may be the way she wants to live, either because her deity says so or whatever other reason.

[–]Alanna 3 points4 points5 points 14 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

For example, we see Muslims in North America and Europe demanding the right to live under Sharia Law as opposed to the laws of their particular country. It's not the environment I would choose to live in, but as a libertarian, I feel they should be allowed to run their communities as they see fit as much as possible.

The whole point of this country is that all people are equal. Your religion is your business, in your home, in your place of worship, in your family, and if you want to adhere to additional rules of your own volition, there's no reason why not (dietary rules, for example), but having one legal system for some and a different legal system for others is fundamentally unAmerican.

Frankly, if they don't want to live by the laws of that country, don't fucking move there. It's pretty simple. But don't take advantage of the society created by, among other things, a secular justice system and then demand exceptions be made for you and your group.

[–]ManThoughts -2 points-1 points0 points 14 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]Alanna 2 points3 points4 points 14 years ago* (3 children) | Copy Link

I'm not saying "live our way or get out" across the board, I very specifically said if you don't want to abide by the laws of a place, GTFO. Rule of law is a very major part of who we are as a country. A huge part of the Constitution is dedicated to setting up a justice system that, in theory, makes all people equal in the eyes of the law and sets up guidelines to guarantee the process is as objective and fair as it can be. The rest of our government rests on our ability to enforce that rule of law. Deciding not to eat pork-- that's up to you. Deciding to honor-kill your daughter because she gave up her virginity to her boyfriend? Not cool. And Sharia Law is pretty toothless without the barbaric punishments to back it up.

Edit: Just want to clarify, you said "as long as someone isn't hurting anyone else," so we may be on the same page here, but saying "the right to live under Sharia Law as opposed to the laws of their particular country" implies to me, at least, something more extensive than simply requesting your women to wear headscarves in public. It implies replacing the law of the land, whole cloth, with Sharia Law. Also, "hurting anyone else" is subjective. Religious people would argue that a hurt or death to the soul is worse than one to the body, and historically that's been used as a justification for all manner of horrors.

[–]ManThoughts 1 point2 points3 points 14 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]Alanna 2 points3 points4 points 14 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]ManThoughts 1 point2 points3 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 14 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

I think there's a difference between our two positions in that you're non-interventionist, while I am not. For instance, I am of a similar stance with Christopher Hitchens that the war in the Middle East is justified--not because of any silly "war on terror" or desire or oil or, but because Islamo-fascism, the particularly militant theological authoritarian regimes in place in much of the Middle East, needs to be fought tooth and nail. It's not just that Islamo-fascists represent a danger to us (through acts of terrorism), they terrorize their own people, and the authors of their state-sponsored brutality should not go unpunished.

I feel the same way about authoritarian (not authoritative, which you may agree is rather different in terminology) family and cultural units. In much the same way as I would seek to free people from repressive cults and religious sects, I would also seek to free people from repressive families. In that instance, I feel the non-aggression axiom provides a useful contrast to non-interventionism--that those who abrogate the lives and freedoms of others lose their right to their own freedoms and, if they persist, their lives as well. It may not be so Christian as turning the other cheek, but in the words of one of my favorite philosophers (paraphrased, of course), "there are more than 170 countries on this spinning planet and the meek have inherited nary a one."

[–]ManThoughts 0 points1 point2 points 14 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

You're right--but don't confuse random mad bombers with concerted political efforts to oppress, maim, murder, and export violence wholesale. The recent Arab Spring has been a welcome refresher in terms of political change in the Middle East, but don't forget that it would never have been possible with the exceedingly fascist Saddam Hussein in power. We are seeing the same sort of thing with Gaddafi, who has simply too much entrenched money, military power, and fear from the Libyan people against reprisals to adequately be deposed.

In the same vein, we've basically forgotten about Iran, where human rights abuses are constantly rising--against gays, women, children, ethnic minorities, etc. State-sponsored violence simply must be opposed by the intervention of other powers--it cannot be reasoned or bargained with, bought off or peacefully resisted from within. To ask individuals to martyr themselves to an uncaring oppressive state is to ask them to waste their lives while we dawdle. We have more of a responsibility to the international community than that.

[+]thingsarebad -7 points-6 points-5 points 14 years ago (57 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points7 points 14 years ago (56 children) | Copy Link

[+]thingsarebad -8 points-7 points-6 points 14 years ago (43 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 6 points7 points8 points 14 years ago (42 children) | Copy Link

No, it really isn't. In India, most men are able to leave the home, work in the city, and bargain with their families for a good match; most women are married off before they even finish school, if they go to school at all.

In China, thanks to the one-child policy, female embryos are aborted if the women have the money. If they have to have the girl-child, often the parents will orphan the girl and try again for a boy. There are actually legal dispensations for attempting to get pregnant again in order to have a boy after unsuccessfully having one (i.e., having a girl).

In the Middle East, especially in fundamentalist Muslim countries, women are not allowed to have drivers' licenses, walk on certain streets or at certain times of the day; some are not even allowed outside at all without a male guardian. Rape is a minor crime, almost never punished when in the context of spousal rape; FGM is no crime at all. In some really remote areas, women aren't even allowed to be seen by their own doctors--they can only be examined through a bedsheet. Women are not allowed to speak their own opinions and their testimony only counts a third that of a man's.

As bad as it is for women in the Middle East, in Africa it's worse. Prostitution is either strictly forbidden or seriously frowned upon by the very religious community leaders in some of the worst AIDS-ravaged countries; thus, prostitutes must work without even having access to condoms to protect themselves. Husbands are discouraged from using condoms as well, which is why housewives are the fastest-rising group at risk of HIV infection. Much of Africa is still so woefully underdeveloped that basic hygiene is a fantasy, and the majority of women never see a doctor in their lives, even though they are encouraged to have as many babies as possible by their congregations. Again, while men do start and participate in very dangerous and costly wars, they do so of their own volition. The majority of indigent African women have no schooling, no job opportunities, and are often given in arranged marriages or encouraged to marry quickly before their value decreases too low. Dangerous scarification/circumcision rituals are still necessary for obtaining a good husband, whereas success on a farm, with a herd, or at one of the few city jobs is the measure of success for a man.

So you'll have to excuse me if I don't join in with you in proclaiming the "protected and privileged" status of women throughout the world. The fact is that much of the world is run on the backs of poor workers with few options; women work just as hard as men in the field, but they also have to push babies out of their guts, tearing them and possibly ruining themselves in the process. It's not a fair trade nor a fair life; it's nasty, brutish, and short, as the saying goes. But it is nowhere near protected nor privileged. That much is clear.

[+]thingsarebad -11 points-10 points-9 points 14 years ago* (41 children) | Copy Link

while men do start and participate in very dangerous and costly wars, they do so of their own volition.

Uh, huh, and women fuck and get HIV of their own volition, too, right?

As always, men are to blame for their own actions, while women are helpless victims.

Please.

In China, thanks to the one-child policy, female embryos are aborted if the women have the money. If they have to have the girl-child, often the parents will orphan the girl and try again for a boy. There are actually legal dispensations for attempting to get pregnant again in order to have a boy after unsuccessfully having one (i.e., having a girl).

That's because women produce less value than men. Oh wait, only men are to blame for their own actions. Women are helpless victims, and so the fact that they produce less value than men is not their own fault. Right.

I'm sure men and women have it hard, but women do not have it worse than men.

In the Middle East, especially in fundamentalist Muslim countries, women are not allowed to have drivers' licenses, walk on certain streets or at certain times of the day; some are not even allowed outside at all without a male guardian. Rape is a minor crime, almost never punished when in the context of spousal rape; FGM is no crime at all.

Boo hoo. Male genital mutilation is not a crime, either, and it still is here in the "good ol' USA". Rape is not a minor crime anywhere, silly. Spousal rape is a silly idea, as that's the whole point of getting married - to have sex, you know?

Your gullibility amuses me.

[–][deleted] 7 points8 points9 points 14 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

Actually, a great deal of spousal HIV infections have been traced back to husbands visiting HIV-positive prostitutes and then infecting their wives without their knowledge. You see, unlike in the West, divorce in catholic and muslim communities in Africa is rare and deeply frowned upon by the cultural authorities. Women are married in their teens and often know no other life besides their husband--abuse, rape, and adultery are all widely tolerated when the husbands do it. Women, though, are still being buried alive for adultery in some fucked-up communities. Then again, witches are also regularly burned alive for Evil Eye curses and penis-stealing, but that's the kind of world these folks live in.

And you're right--men and women have it hard. Men do not have to have babies in that horribly hard life, over and over until they die or their bodies are no longer productive, because they have little or no say in their own reproductive choice. Can you say any men have any similar pain or torture visited upon them, over and over, just for being married? Not counting work--women work very hard, back-breaking days in sweltering fields just like men. But can you name any single thing that could match third world childbirth for men? That they have no control over, and that is visited upon them over and over and over, and considered to be their lot in life (if they survive)?

[+]thingsarebad -7 points-6 points-5 points 14 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

Men do not have to have babies in that horribly hard life, over and over until they die or their bodies are no longer productive, because they have little or no say in their own reproductive choice. Can you say any men have any similar pain or torture visited upon them, over and over, just for being married?

Haha, oh please. This is your view of married life for women? I'd say women have it pretty fucking easy compared to men, who either fight in war at risk of death or work in jobs where there is a huge risk of death as well.

Oh, but the poor women's, having babies! Against their will, yeah fucking right. These women are happy to have a house and home provided for them while they tend to the children they love, and they have plenty control over their own situation because they have plenty of control over their husbands. Women control the vast majority of discretionary spending for a reason - because they control things through their husbands, and THAT is power.

But can you name any single thing that could match third world childbirth for men?

Oh, I don't know? Work, war, death?

Child birth is nothing compared to those. Sorry.

That they have no control over, and that is visited upon them over and over and over, and considered to be their lot in life (if they survive)?

Welcome to the world of being a man, fool. I think you summed up a man's life pretty well - they have no control over it, they are expected to provide for a woman and her children, they are expected to work or fight in war, over and over until they die so that their loved ones can survive. What a fine lot in life. What male privilege, ha!

[–][deleted] 6 points7 points8 points 14 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

As you conveniently passed over, women in the third world ALSO work. In fact, women are the majority of subsistence agricultural workers in places like China and India, where crops have to be harvested bent double, by hand, for 16 hours a day, in sweltering heat. So work isn't an excuse--both partners work. Men still don't have to have the babies. The only thing I can imagine would be the same is if every husband had violent rectal prolapse every fourteen months to two years during his married life, in addition to working.

Wars, especially civil wars, are actually pretty infrequent, and civilians are targeted in about equal numbers of men and women. Those who do participate, including child soldiers, sign up for the murder and mayhem of their own volition. They aren't born to soldiery, they aren't socially required to participate (most violent revolutions actually start out peaceful) and if they want to desert, there aren't any more dangers than being a part of the general population at risk. As a woman, however, women can't even pick up a gun and participate in most countries; where they are allowed to take a stand, they usually end up in service capacities anyway. So war is also off the table by virtue of it being a choice, not a requirement.

And as for death, everybody dies. Childbirth is still the leading cause of death of women in the developing world. So even if you add up all the workplace deaths that men suffer from, add women's workplace deaths, then childbirth deaths, you barely break even--just like i said, life being nasty, brutish, and short for all people. Maybe women here in the coddled West are... well, coddled, but I'm still not seeing this "privileged position" for women in the third world yet. Got anything else?

[–]Alanna 6 points7 points8 points 14 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]Alanna 8 points9 points10 points 14 years ago (35 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] -4 points-3 points-2 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[+]thingsarebad -65 points-64 points-63 points 14 years ago* (33 children) | Copy Link

I think most accusations of "spousal rape" are bullshit.

"Marital rape" is primarily a false tactic used by women to easily send their husbands to prison, gain custody of their children, or an excuse for when they murder them in cold blood.

Furthermore, marriage is a contract where a woman receives money and a man receives sex. Please don't bother with a lecture on what you think marriage is. Yes, it also involves raising a family, but in the end a woman generally exchanges her reproductive ability and sex for a man's money and protection.

If a woman who breaks the contract no longer has to provide sex, why does the man still have to provide her money? And we all know that the vast majority of the time it is the male paying after a divorce. You shouldn't have it both ways. I doubt you will understand the point of what I'm saying due to your ineptness, but please try to make the connection. If a man yelling at a woman is abuse, if a man choosing not to give all his money for her to go shopping is abuse, then a woman denying a man sex is abuse as well, and that man should be able to leave his wife with no obligation for alimony or "child support" (really just another form of alimony since it goes to the woman, not the children). If he is unable to leave the abusive situation without suffering further by losing his children and his money, then it appears he is in a rather hostile situation. To avoid such situations, it would be best to eliminate alimony/child support and allow males at least 50/50 custody of their children. So if you think the few actual "marital rapes" are a problem, I'd suggest you work on ending alimony and "child support" and fixing the extremely biased "family" court system. You might also work with women to teach them that marriage is give and take, they should have just as much responsibility as the man to work things out, and it's unacceptable to make false accusations.

Voila! A 90% reduction in "marital rape".

[–]music_user 19 points20 points21 points 14 years ago (11 children) | Copy Link

[+]thingsarebad -17 points-16 points-15 points 14 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 49 points50 points51 points 14 years ago* (2 children) | Copy Link

Y'know, if guys didn't want to be falsely accused of rape and have all of their money taken in divorce, maybe they shouldn't get married. Seems to me they're just asking for it, walking around with gold chains on and hundred dollar bills hanging out of their pockets. If you dont want to attract gold diggers, stop flaunting your wealth!

You cant just walk around looking rich and act surprised when a woman false-accuses you of rape. When an especially wealthy looking man decides to walk around in some dark alleyway with no alibi, he has to accept responsibility if some woman takes advantage of the situation and false-accuses him of rape. It's his fault, really! How is it the woman's responsibility to not accuse the man of rape? Women are primal creatures, they're constantly on the lookout for an easy way to support themselves, and they cannot control their evolutionary need to false-rape accuse.

[–]ipokebrains 15 points16 points17 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[+]thingsarebad -7 points-6 points-5 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]HereComesSpeedRacist 20 points21 points22 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Alanna 10 points11 points12 points 14 years ago (16 children) | Copy Link

[+]thingsarebad -15 points-14 points-13 points 14 years ago (15 children) | Copy Link

[+][deleted] -9 points-8 points-7 points 14 years ago (11 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 6 points7 points8 points 14 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points1 point 14 years ago* (9 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 14 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

You obviously haven't even read the very blog you posted:

I got out and went West, way West, to Asia. Best place to avoid becoming an unwilling mangina. My staffroom has Asian women galore, fun, sweet, and nice to look at, and no Western women, even though I work in education, a feminized field. The staffroom is a guys' room.

Why the fuck do you think "the staffroom is a guys' room"? Because "it's better to raise geese than girls" is considered chummy folk wisdom in Asia. Girls are abandoned in orphanages by the millions every year in China alone; girls and women all throughout Asia have centuries of lethal prejudice keeping them from being on equal terms with men in any situation, at any level of the social strata.

Do you not see how fundamentally wrong it is to actually go looking for women who are your social inferiors so that you won't feel threatened by them? How much more desperate people's lives are outside of the comfortable infrastructure of the West? Are you really suggesting that we, as educated, successful, ethical American men, take advantage of the opportunity presented by cultures who marginalize, threaten, abuse, and murder women on such a monumental scale? You make me physically ill.

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points1 point 14 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 14 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

I'm sure there are very nice and normal areas of Detroit, and that most of the people you meet there are normal and very nice as well. But that doesn't mean I'd ever consider settling down there, and that's in America, where I know the language, customs, and everything!

But here you are, advocating moving to a completely foreign country, where political disputes might see your white ass abducted by terrorist groups (especially if you live in Northern Africa or the Middle East right now) or jailed on some obscure charge in a completely non-Western prison system where people don't even care if you're fed. And while those are extreme examples, they are not uncommon; what is uncommon, however, is the "middle class" that you keep describing in India, SE Asia, and Africa. People are still dying of starvation in huge numbers in all of these regions! I simply couldn't live with myself, being a member of the "middle class" of a country where that extent of income and lifestyle disparity was common. You may be able to put your blinders on to the impoverished people living in the shadows of the gleaming towers of Dubai, but I'm not you, and I don't ever want to be you.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 14 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points1 point 14 years ago* (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]Demonspawn 0 points1 point2 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] -3 points-2 points-1 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Ok some pretty strange views of the outside world are coming up.

Everywhere I've been (which isn't everywhere there is) women have had the freedom to work, but none of the feminist man hate. They have the good bits but not the bad bits of feminism. The same counts for women from abroad who've moved here.

Some of you seem to think if it's not America it's peasants herding goats. You do know these other countries have middle class and upper class communities too right? You don't have to date a goat herder. A middle class Chinese girl will be just as educated as you, some will even have the same politics as you (some will have different politics), you can't just call everyone without English as a first language backward.

Yes marrying abroad will not give you all the legal rights as a local marrying in most cases. But the important thing is you'll be marrying someone who isn't indoctrinated in man hating and unfaithfulness. And you'll be voting with your feet against the women who've done their best to make a penis a crime.

Title	Why are you still here?
Author	[deleted]
Upvotes	0
Comments	65
Date	July 25, 2011 6:01 PM UTC (14 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/izd7z/why_are_you_still_here/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/why-are-you-still-here.1036770 https://theredarchive.com/post/1036770

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