A discussion/poll about Leadership and Assholes

Bojack35 · 2020-10-16T22:24:57+00:00

I think the premise of leadership is not really applicable to loose collectives like MRA or Feminism.

More vocal / influential members, sure. That doesn't make them leaders within a power structure, just more vocal individuals.

Of course there are organised versions of MRA/ feminism, but let's be fair the majority of self identified members dont belong to some club or follow certain edicts.

I do think there are some MRA who hate women, and some feminists who hate men. It's true of pretty much every segment of society - you will always have members of (insert religion/race/gender/political leanings etc.) Who dislike ( insert random 'group'.) That's inevitable. Its only a problem when those views are encouraged and disseminated within a group. I dont think MRA has a problem there. Feminism, not really, but it does appear more tolerant of misandry. That's not surprising when the premise of the movement is to mischaracterise men as oppressors.

Trunk-Monkey · 2020-10-16T22:28:11+00:00

Paul Elam may be the 'leader' of AVfM, but I'm not sure that translates out to being a 'leader' of the larger MRM. Also, despite agreeing with some of what he says, that man is an overly argumentative bloviating ass, he certainly doesn't represent me either as a man, or as an MRA. And he isn't the only person to either adopt, or be attributed, the label of MRA, that I will happily disavow.

ApprehensiveMail8 · 2020-10-17T00:54:14+00:00

Wait, we have leaders? /s

Honestly, this question is tricky because you really just can't be an MRA and an asshole. And you definitely can't be an MRA and an asshole/leader. At least, not at this point in time.

Don't get me wrong- people will *think* you are an asshole. You will definitely be called an asshole, treated like an asshole. If you have any desire to become a powerful business or political leader this will not help. It won't make you money or help you get laid, if you are accused of a sex crime your status as an MRA *definitely* won't help you defend yourself in court, it's not cool and it won't look good on your resume. And we know this going in (at least, I hope you all know this).

But at the end of the day, what we are literally doing is standing up for the rights of every individual human, the entire human race.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/man

If you are willing to personally appear to be an asshole, for the sake of literally everyone else, that's pretty much the exact opposite of actually being an asshole.

newhopefortarget · 2020-10-17T02:42:02+00:00

I don't think being an "asshole" is a problem at all within the context of political theory. You know, tone policing is just SJW censorship. So while it's fun to point out the assholes on both sides to show a greater cultural reality, that's much weaker than pointing out errors in logical reasoning.

The feminists aren't wrong because they're assholes. They're assholes because the believe in self contradictory bullshit.

iainmf · 2020-10-17T03:20:21+00:00

MRAs are people who advocate for men's rights. It's a description of what someone does. It's not a belief system or political affiliation. There's no automatic association with other MRAs. An MRA is an MRA because they do advocacy, not because they want to be associated with other MRAs, or be part of 'Team MRA', or take leadership from another MRA.

Feminism is a belief system. People choose to be feminists and to call themselves feminists. They do that knowing that some feminists are terrible people and they are willing to associate themselves with those people to some degree.

Pickled_Elmo · 2020-10-17T10:40:08+00:00

You're asking for reasonable consideration from the same people who had Donna Hylton as a keynote speaker at the 2017 Women's March. They're willing to hold her up as a speaker and leader after she participated in the kidnapping, rape, torture and murder of a man, including sodomizing him with a piece of pipe. They may take issue with a few men saying mean things but the feminists look up to vile people like her who murder men in the most wicked and cruel ways they can conceive.

Lion_amongst_gods · 2020-10-17T00:56:24+00:00

Classic feminist distraction tactic.

My response-

If I keep on spending my resources on disavowing whoever you point your finger at, who's gonna do my job of working for men's rights?
MRA is nowhere near as organized or funded or politically supported as feminism. So, your concept of leadership and rebels is meaningless.
Feminism has the first mover advantage. So, it's even possible that they hire those "decoy fake assholes" to dilute the movement and attract public ire.
Which feminist authority has disavowed the excesses of feminism and corrected it through actions? When they don't do it, why do they expect it from the other side?

Clockw0rk · 2020-10-16T22:20:13+00:00

I'm of the opinion that movement leaders should be as diplomatic as possible to enact real change in the world of "normies". Figureheads like Paul Elam who shitpost about false accusers being "lying bitches" doesn't really help our cause, and sours the public on our message.

While I acknowledge that there is some women hate in this forum, I think that our community does an above average job of calling it out and downvoting it where it happens. Rule 10 in the sidebar makes outright hate speech against the rules, which is more than can be said about some of the women-only communities like FDS and Feminism.

I think one of the things that the MensRights 'sphere' does well, is segregating the different groups which have been lumped together by an indifferent media. MRAs are distinct from MGTOW, or 'Red Pillers', and we meet the distinction head-on when topic arises. Feminism, however, aligns itself with the most possible people regardless of quality; which is why they refuse to distinguish themselves from TERFs and FDS losers.

Thoughts?

Immastopya · 2020-10-17T04:31:45+00:00

I would say the major difference is one says patriarchy is at fault, another says society is at fault. This is what separates us from men's lib (simps) and feminism in general. This is obviously excluding mgtow.

Title	A discussion/poll about Leadership and Assholes
Author	Clockw0rk
Upvotes	7
Comments	9
Date	October 16, 2020 10:09 PM UTC (5 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/jcjcgr/a_discussionpoll_about_leadership_and_assholes/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/a-discussionpoll-about-leadership-and-assholes.1194406 https://theredarchive.com/post/1194406

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