Question about reading in sidebar.

OsmiumZulu · 2019-03-07T07:34:32+00:00

Is there a list of the MAP items somewhere outside the book?

The Book of Pook is one of the older source "texts" of the early RP movement. Pook was a pillar of the PUA community which eventually gave birth to the Red Pill. You'll notice the Book of Pook doesn't use much RP lingo (AWALT, plates, dread, etc) because most of that hadn't even been started yet. Also, what it was written it was written from an unmarried man to other unmarried men who were trying to better understand women. That's why there isn't really explicit MAP material in the document.

Am I missing something about how the poon commandments break most of the RP tools/concepts?

Reading Pook is a bit like reading the Early Church Fathers: there is a lot of great material but also some stuff that seems off base. It makes sense. The ECFs didn't have the benefits that come with centuries of application, study, and perspective. Plus, some of the stuff that seems off to us made more sense in their context. Pook is sort of like this. He didn't have all the science, field reports, and application that has happened since his time to apply.

Is it just me are a few of these books more focused on progressing through the relationship or understanding hypergamy instead of focusing on self? In otherwords.. some of these books feel like RP butthurts.

If you understand hypergamy (or calculus) and how to progress through a relationship (or the workplace) you have bettered yourself, no? Not every book of benefit is going to be directly focused on self improvement. That said, any book that helps sharpen your vision of the world around you and helps you notice the details and patterns that you would have otherwise missed will inevitably improve you.

What to expect in book of Pook?

Thought provocation. Don't try to directly translate it into exact RP categories. There is insight to be found, as well as some folly. As it has been said, consume the meat and spit out the bones.

EDIT: Even though you didn't include them in your direct questions, I figured I'd offer some thoughts on the specific points you brought up.

Golden ratio of 2/3... should I think the GOLDEN RATIO suggests I should initiate and touch less than she does???

Technically yes. That said, you are the captain of your ship and if you like the way the sails are trimmed and the direction you are headed don't monkey with them just because. The idea with the golden ratio here is that you are the prize and the one who has the least interest in the relationship has the most power. Over-demonstrating interest can diminish your perceived power in the relationship. Now, I personally think this is splitting hairs when it comes to touch if you are clearly touching her for your own amusement not to try and score points with her.

Keep her guessing - Isn't punishing low value? Shouldn't we really be applying amused mastery, or just an I have more interesting things to do here? Why would a high value alpha spend time punishing someone when he lives in abundance?

This is an area where Pook doesn't exactly translate to RP since he wrote before RP terms were really a thing. Withdrawal of attention is a form of punishment for poor behavior. Remember, women offer sex, men offer attention / commitment. So yeah, you are right.

Say sorry only when necessary... an apology as a tool to keep the conversation moving is almost like a fog I would think.

Saying sorry is rarely necessary and always costly. If you screwed the pouch on something, instead of saying you are sorry, try something like: "The way I handled (whatever) was not how I should have. Moving forward, I am going to do (something) instead next time because it is important to me to do the right thing." See the difference? It is coming from your frame and action oriented. "I'm sorry" is most often the opposite: reacting to their frame and past oriented.

Ignore her beauty... aren't we supposed to make wives feel like H10?

Ignore is too strong of a word, but it isn't our job to make wives feel like HB10s if they aren't or if you don't want to. Remember: you are the captain and the prize. She dolls up because she is trying to impress you. Now, if she's objectively an HB6 and dolls herself up to be an HB7, it makes perfect sense to reinforce the behavior and praise her up and down. If your wife is an HB9+ though, it would probably make more sense to downplay her hotness. She knows she's hot (so does Chad and her orbiters) and you not fawning over her hotness (or better making gentle fun of her style or makeup or whatever) is a DHV move.

Be irrationally self-confident... I just don't see how this commandment even fits in RP. Sounds more like a butthurt chad.

I think you are reading this one too closely. Irrational here just means "extremely ridiculously" self confident.

13 Err on the side of too much boldness.... I need this one

Most of us do.

Give Good Sex... is more a goal than a commandment?

Keep in mind Pook was a PUA, he wasn't talking about married sex or LTRs primarily. If you are having regular sex with your wife there will be peaks and valleys, but the overall trend should be up and to the right.

Red-Curious · 2019-03-07T21:06:18+00:00

I'm working through the sidebar.

Glad to hear. I'll assume you haven't read the posts on "mission" yet and not get into that until you do.

Moving on: I did a write-up on the first half of the poon commands. Here it is, for your reference. I never did write part 2, addressing the others. Maybe I need to get back to it. This is not on the sidebar, so you may have missed it.

Should I think the GOLDEN RATIO suggests I should initiate and touch less than she does???

The golden ratio is predominantly about communication, not sexual initiation. It's okay to express yourself sexually however you feel appropriate.

Isn't punishing low value? Shouldn't we really be applying amused mastery, or just an I have more interesting things to do here?

Withdrawing time and attention to do something else IS your punishment, as far as non-Christians are concerned. From a biblical standpoint, God doesn't punish believers at all (1 John 4), nor do I have any interest in punishing my wife. But God does withhold his blessing and his felt presence from people who are walking in opposition to him, just as I will withhold my blessings or physical presence from my wife if the situation calls.

an apology as a tool to keep the conversation moving is almost like a fog I would think.

This probably deserves a post of its own. To be extremely brief, an apology recognizes an obligation. If you don't owe anyone anything, you don't have to apologize for failing to live up to that obligation. That obligation can be affirmative (I owe you $10 and didn't pay it) or by omission (I owe it to you not to slash your tires). While we are conditioned by culture to affirm the existence of such obligations to other people, this is merely a social construct and not a biblical one. Our only obligation is to God.

So, if I want to punch my neighbor in the face, what's holding me back? Do I have an obligation to refrain from physical violence to him for his own sake? No. Do I owe it to society not to do so? No, I can accept the social consequences if I choose to follow through. But because Christ is in me, I do owe it to God - he does not want me to exercise irrational physical violence against my neighbors, so for God's sake I refrain - not for my neighbor's sake or the government's sake.

The same is true with my wife. If I yell at her and call her horrible names, did I have an obligation to her not to do that? No. But I do have an obligation to God and he would not have me do that. If I violate that obligation, my sin is against God's standards over my life, not my wife's standards. I can violate my wife's standards any time I want and have no concern for it. She is not my judge. I owe her nothing. But I do owe God something, and his standards include boundaries for how I must treat my wife - and just as David repeatedly fell in love with God's statutes in the psalms (especially 119), so also do I love and genuinely internalize and enjoy the standards God has for how I interact with my wife. This is a beautiful thing, not a series of boundaries I despise.

To go a bit further with David, Psalm 51 takes place after David caused Bathsheba to commit adultery, then killed her husband (one of his own mighty men and close friends), and ultimately was the cause of their baby dying. Did David sin against Bathsheba? Did he sin against Uriah, her husband? Did he sin against the baby that died? No, he says to God, "Against you, you only, have I sinned." David understood that Bathsheba was not his judge and he had no obligation to her apart from God.

For the secular crowd, there's never a need to apologize because they don't have God. Apart from God they owe nobody else anything. They are not bound by the judgments of the rest of the world, except to the degree that physical force makes them. So, it makes sense to be entirely unapologetic. But for the believer, we do have an obligation to God, and this includes boundaries for interacting with his children - both the saved and unsaved ones, whether we're married to them or not. So, my apology is to God when I violate those boundaries.

That said, I agree with you in concept that that an occasional "I'm sorry," when appropriately warranted, isn't going to cause much harm and can demonstrate a degree of humility that can be advantageous at times - but I'm not sure the same would apply to secular relationships the same way, if we're looking at it purely pragmatically and not theologically. And yes, that's the short version.

aren't we supposed to make wives feel like H10?

Absolutely not. No pedestalization. As /u/OsmiumZulu said, there are times when it's good to reinforce good behavior when she dolls herself up, but you should not make her feel more attractive than she actually is. That is highly counter-productive.

Be irrationally self-confident

This is referencing the dark-triad trait of narcissism. Extreme self-confidence is attractive. I used to run experiments on people when I was younger, seeing how far I could persuade a person through sheer confidence alone. The typical challenge I'd give myself is to persuade someone that German soldiers under Nazi command were actually highly moral people and that we should all strive to be like them - even the ones who were in charge of the gas chambers. For most people, that statement alone is ludicrous - and it should be! But presented with enough confidence, I found I was able to persuade several people to agree with me and even more people to acknowledge that, while unpersuaded, there was enough of an argument that they had a newfound respect for Nazi sympathizers. And then I would tear them down and go off on how the whole thing was a set-up and they fell for it. I wasn't very kind in those days.

My point is: irrational confidence is highly alluring. Even today I can stand in court with a weak argument, knowing it is weak, but because I present it with extreme confidence, I can often persuade a judge to accept my theory of the case over the opposing attorney's. Logically, they shouldn't. But they do. That's what this commandment is about - that type of attractive confidence.

Give good sex ... more a goal than a commandment?

Right. I don't remember where I wrote it, but I know I have some content on how the secular world has different purposes than we do. Apart from God, evolutionary biology and psychology is all that matters to the rest of the world. If evolution is true, advancement of the species is the primary imperative of every person. This means sex, sex, and more sex. The better you are at it, the more people will want to procreate with you to advance the species. So, from a secular vantage point, making this a command makes perfect sense. It is commanded by evolution that we must procreate.

From a Christian vantage point, the command to procreate (Genesis 1:28) was fulfilled in Christ from physical procreation and transitioned to a spiritual procreation, giving life to new believers who would be "born again." And yes, this type of spiritual procreation absolutely is a command - and not just any command, but the "great" command/commission.

Is there a list of the MAP items somewhere outside the book?

Not here, necessarily, though our sidebar covers a lot of it.

Am I missing something about how the poon commandments break most of the RP tools/concepts?

I think so, see above.

Is it just me are a few of these books more focused on progressing through the relationship or understanding hypergamy instead of focusing on self?

There's a split on what it means to be "red pilled." Some people believe the red pill is purely about sexual strategy. Others believe it's about men's legal rights. Others believe it's about becoming your own man and being the best you can be. Others believe it's about knowledge-based awareness of the sexual marketplace. Your answer depends on how you define the red pill. For some definitions, understanding hypergamy and sexuality is the most red pilled thing in the world; from others, it's counter-productive and frame-breaking.

Deep_Strength · 2019-03-07T22:04:18+00:00

Most of the "RP advice" is specifically geared toward men who are unattractive to stop them from sabotaging themselves by doing unattractive things.

Example: 10. Ignore her beauty

Your average unattractive man when he sees a woman he likes and wants to be with her is going to start off first by complimenting her on her beauty. This tells a woman that he is just like any other man and wants to get into a relationship with her because she's beautiful. She then puts him into the other pile of men who were complimenting her all the time and may like the attention but he's no relationship prospect anymore.

Obviously, this "rule" is here not because you're supposed to ignore her beauty but because unattractive men are sabotaging themselves from being in a relationship with her by focusing on it.

Compliment your date/SO/wife on her beauty if you want. But understand that there is a time and place for everything.

Also, it's generally best to compliment a woman on things she actually can do. For example, a woman generally can't control her physical beauty, but she can pick a dress that complements her figure well. So comment on her choice of dress instead.

Example: "You look really good in that you picked out for our date... great choice." Wink wink.

Title	Question about reading in sidebar.
Author	Umar_Neo
Upvotes	7
Comments	8
Date	March 7, 2019 2:53 AM UTC (7 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/RPChristians
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/RPChristians/comments/ay7nut/question_about_reading_in_sidebar/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/RPChristians/question-about-reading-in-sidebar.301385 https://theredarchive.com/post/301385

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