flowers?

kingofpoplives · 2014-07-09T18:08:28+00:00

when he knows he is going to get laid he picks up a cheap thing of flowers

The key parts here are "when he knows he is going to get laid" and "cheap". You are messing up by giving these girls flowers when you aren't getting sex.

Your buddy understands how to use push and pull. He rewards them after sex to incentivize that behavior, make them feel less slutty about giving it up, and increase the chances of having sex again. He pulls a major alpha move (commanding sex) then softens it with a touch of beta.

This why, if you ever want to see a girl again after a one night stand, you need to make a bit of friendly chat within a few days. Otherwise she will feel that she's been pumped and dumped.

You have the pattern in reverse. You have been giving girls flowers when they are withholding sex from you. Basically, you are rewarding them for not sleeping with you. This is Beta Game. You give girls the reward up front, hoping that in the spirit of fairness, they will reward you with sex.

seedang · 2014-07-09T17:16:08+00:00

definitely not.

southernfriedcode · 2014-07-09T18:00:27+00:00

Giving gifts depends entirely upon your frame.

Giving her flowers as a 'hidden contract' like a 'nice guy' hoping for a reward from her is absolutely not something you should be doing.

Giving her flowers just for the fuck of it (or any gift really) is a different frame and something you need to evaluate based on the specific chick. Generally speaking though, I wouldn't do it.

But, if your friend holds frame properly and isn't giving as them as some sort of trade for sex, then I could see it working out for him.

pupplenupple · 2014-07-10T01:20:16+00:00

You give a girl you are in an exclusive relationship with flowers that other people may see if you want to set things up so she's going to have to actually explain it to people if she dumps you or cheats. Or if you want all her friends to think you're already fucking her... that's why girls get shitty and make accusations of stalking when the "creepy" (ie, low SMV) guy gives them flowers... he may think he's laying claim or showing he is romantic but from their point of view he's just lowering their SMV by what he's implying. You also give a girl flowers if you want her to have proof of your existence around her house or at her workplace desk or next to her hospital bed. For example, if you send your LTR flowers at her desk a couple of times, if she fucks a workmate at the Xmas party everyone gonna think she's a dreadful sort of slut instead of an ordinary sort of slut... if you hadn't sent the flowers they might not even know you existed. You might give a high value girl flowers if you want to LTR her and think it is a good idea to remind her that you're a better beta provider than the other guys she's considering... if you're up against a lot of guys she knows in her social circle who are similarly alpha to you it might give you the edge on them, make them have yet another thing to keep up with. If you are older you might give a younger girl flowers to remind her that young men can't keep up with you financially.

Of course in return, if you are a high SMV man she gets an increase on her SMV through being publicly desired, and the flowers themselves are pretty. That's why guys with the resources to do it sometimes send flowers as a morning after gift to girls they have casual sex with... distract her from the reduction in her SMV that the increase in her count gave her, keep her sweet and not disappointed and bitchy.

I have no idea about your friends use of flowers, obviously they aren't the totality of his game and he might be using them as a counterpoint to his other actions, whatever. Flowers aren't strategy, flowers are tactics. Betas can use alpha tactics sometimes, alphas can use beta tactics sometimes, that's different to strategy which is the overall plan. If you don't have good strategy flowers aren't going to save you and may just make you look pathetic, comprehensively beta, even "creepy". If you do have good strategy you'll have some idea whether flowers are appropriate for you to give a girl at that particular time.

niczar · 2014-07-11T16:38:23+00:00

You can give gifts in that situation but they have to be of extremely low monetary value. There are whole chapters about it in social psychology textbooks.

Basically, it boils down to this. If you ask / want someone to do something for you, giving them a very expensive gift beforehand allows them to rationalize having done the favor as a job, i.e. "I did it for the money." If you give them an inexpensive gift (<$1) they feel the need to reciprocate, but they have to (cognitive dissonance) explain them doing you the favor as something they did voluntarily, i.e. because they like you.

That being said, don't buy shit for her, even inexpensive, in front of her. Pick a flower yourself and give it to her if you two are walking by a park, or make one out of the bill if you're good at origami and sitting at a bar. A friend of mine did that often; he would chat up a girl, and fold the bill or a flier seemingly aimlessly while talking, and then, magic, he hands her a paper flower with a corny smile. It works because she saw it was not a huge effort on his part, it was spontaneous and not completely unwanted attention since they were already talking; but it reframes the situation in one where she has to accept the gift, thus feels the need to reciprocate, and at the same time it being a flower has obvious romantic implications.

KaptainCavy · 2014-07-11T22:15:37+00:00

Maybe 'knows' was the wrong term. When he thinks he is gonna get laid he does this. He may do it every-time he sees a girl, I don't know. What I do know is it works for him.

KaptainCavy · 2014-07-12T20:39:02+00:00

I'm going to meet this girl I met last week tomorrow for coffee. We've hooked up twice but didn't fuck. She has a boyfriend and claimed to feel too guilty to fuck, but that didn't stop her from inviting me to her place and getting naked. I made it clear that I wanted to fuck her and get to know her. She said she wants to keep in contact but keep things platonically because of this boyfriend. I thought bringing flowers tomorrow might be a good tactic.

Based off of pupplenupple's logic?

Title	flowers?
Author	KaptainCavy
Upvotes	4
Comments	10
Date	July 9, 2014 4:55 PM UTC (12 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/askTRP
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/asktrp/comments/2a93fc/flowers/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/askTRP/flowers.140650 https://theredarchive.com/post/140650

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