I’d like to discuss what I think is a disturbing and harmful trend in the pick-up community.

A lot of the big-time PUA coaches, most notably to me RSD, sell this idea that guys have to be “persistent,” even to the point of continuing to “game” a girl after she says no. This idea is attractive because it makes guys think that the girls that rejected them in the past didn’t reject them because they were unattractive, they rejected them because the guy wasn’t persistent enough. I’ve seen this attitude filter down to a lot of regular guys, and a lot of seddit members now think it’s totally fine and normally to continually push on a girl who already said no or already said she has a boyfriend.

I disagree with this mindset. And here’s why:

Persistence

First, I am not against persistence. In fact, persistence is sometimes necessary because women take longer than men to get emotionally invested and attracted, so whereas a man will instantly “buy into” a girl, it takes the girl some more time. This time could range from a few hours to a few dates. This “in between” time fucks a lot of guys up, and a lot of guys see the girl acting cold, uninterested, or uncertain and just give up, thinking that she has already said “no” in her mind. But she hasn’t said “no” – she is just taking a while to decide, and you should stay in the game until she gives you a firm “no” or a firm “yes.” So I totally, 100% agree that sometimes persistence is necessary.

Because guys emotionally invest faster than girls, sometimes a guy will quickly escalate (ask for a date, go for a kiss, try to fuck, etc…), and the girl will give soft “no.” A soft no means “not yet, I am still trying to decide.” That soft no sometimes later becomes a “yes.” A “hard” no, however, is usually “no” forever.

Unfortunately, the problem is that most PUA coaches, and guys in general, don’t really understand this “in between” time, so they make up a lot of stupid, sexist explanations for it. They will say “girls don’t know what they want,” “you gotta keep going after she says no, bro,” or “a girl saying she has a boyfriend is just shit testing you.” I see these types of statements on seddit and PUA forums a million times a day and it drives me fucking nuts. This attitude is fundamentally sexist because it assumes that women are stupid children that don’t understand their own feelings and need a strong, confident man to “seduce” them even if she doesn’t think she wants to be seduced. Taken to the extreme, this mindset leads to sexual assault and rape, and that’s also why a lot feminists and regular people see PUAs as sexist creeps.

Here’s the truth: women DO know what they want. In fact, they think about what they want more than men do and they are more self-aware about their preferences than men are. Women also generally understand the game better than men and are generally better at reading emotions. The only difference is, like I said, WOMEN TAKE LONGER TO DECIDE. Women have a lot more variables to calculate, and complex feelings to work through, so their initial reaction may not be their final reaction. But it’s stupid and sexist to think that women fundamentally don’t know what they want. They do.

Furthermore, on the flipside, if a girl is talking to you and figuring you out, she may eventually decide she doesn’t want to fuck you. I see tons of guys pretend like if a girl is talking to them she definitely wants to fuck. “Assume attraction” doesn’t mean “if a girl is talking to you she definitely wants to fuck” but rather “if a girl is talking to you that means you can maybe convince her, but maybe not.”

Persistence and neediness

Furthermore, persistence only works if the guy is fundamentally confident, fulfilled, happy and has abundance. A guy like RSD Luke is a jolly, happy fellow with abundance and emotional intelligence, so when he’s “persistent” girls see him as a jolly scallywag trying to get into her pants because she’s hot and he’s having fun. A lot of RSD Luke’s followers, however, don’t have as much abundance, so when they show persistence they come off as needy, desperate creeps. Women can read a man’s emotional state, and if she senses that you are needy and desperate she runs away because 1) that’s not attractive to women and 2) needy, desperate guys oftentimes become annoying at best and stalkers and rapists at worst.

I’ve seen lots of guys post field reports and text conversation of themselves with girls and the whole interaction comes off as “I’m a desperate creep, and I will do anything to fuck you, no matter how many times you say no.” That shit is scary to women. And those guys are not getting laid.

But, unfortunately, they saw some shit in an RSD video, so now they think they need to be “persistent.”

No

No means no. Remember that. Always and forever.

Like I said earlier, sometimes a woman gives you a “soft” no, which really means “not right now, but maybe later, so keep trying.” But even a soft no is still bad because it means you did something wrong. You asked her to do something she didn’t want to do, or you made an escalation she wasn’t ready for, etc… In sales, you learn to never ask a question that the customer will say “no” to, because “no” is not just a word, it’s also an emotional reaction. When we say “no” our whole body tightens up and we get into defensive mode, as if we’ve been attacked by an enemy. Trying to convince somebody to do something after they’ve already said no is very hard.

I consider myself relatively advanced, and women rarely say “no” to me, because I can read their emotions well enough to only ask for something or escalate when she is ready for it. A lot of guys here don’t have that same emotional intelligence, so they continue pushing even when she gives “hard” nos, and these delusional guys think “that’s just a shit test, bro.” No means no. At the very least, no means fall waaay back.

Self-esteem

The main reason you shouldn’t pursue women that have already said no to you is your own self-esteem. As I’ve written before, supplicating to a woman, validating yourself to a woman, buying a woman things, following a woman around, allowing a woman to treat you like shit, and spending too much time trying to “help” a woman who doesn’t deserve it subconsciously will cause you to become emotionally invested in her and feel “beneath” her.

Sometimes guys will do loserish things, like let a girl treat them badly or repeatedly pursue a girl who doesn’t care about them, and justify it by saying “I don’t really care about her, I just want to fuck.” This is a bad idea, because even though you consciously think you “don’t give a fuck,” by pursuing her, you become emotionally invested, and by allowing her treat you like shit, you subconsciously re-wire your brain to feel like a beta male. Even if you didn't give a fuck before, now you do.

You can’t control how you feel, but you can control what you do. Where your actions go, your feelings will follow, and where feelings go, your thoughts will follow. If you do loser things, you will eventually feel like a loser, even if you consciously tell yourself you “don’t give a fuck.” If a hot girl tries to strike a Faustian bargain with you and let you fuck her in return for treating you like shit, you must reject that deal out of respect for your own mental health.

So what should you do?

Here’s some practical advice:

If you’re a noobie, and you don’t have the emotional intelligence to navigate a “soft” no, or tell the difference between a hard no and a soft no, always back off when the girl says no. You should always stay less emotionally invested than the girl, and a “no” is a big sign that you should slam the brakes and take a big step. I usually just walk away if a girl says no to anything I propose because I know there are tons of girls that will say yes.

Whenever a girl says “no” your response should be “ok.” From there, it’s up to her if she wants to continue the interaction. You put the ball in her court, and if she builds up interest again and then later indicates that maybe she wants to hang out, then maybe you can ask her out again. But once she says no once, it’s all on her - you shouldn’t be pursuing her because you don’t want to get caught in an endless cycle of nos and ruined self-esteem.

Also, stop trying to fuck girls that say they have boyfriends. “I have a boyfriend” is a rejection. She may be lying, but even if she is lying, she’s saying that because you are coming on too strong. You should always be less emotionally invested than her, and if she’s lying to keep you away, you are too emotionally invested.

And finally, stop being desperate. If you find yourself continually getting rejected by girls and constantly saying needy things, take some time off from girls and go focus on other parts of your life.

Go to my website: http://www.woujo.com