Victim-blaming: not just for women. [X-Post from AnythingGoesUltimate]

[–]Doctor_Loggins 0 points1 point2 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Embogenous 0 points1 point2 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Demonspawn -3 points-2 points-1 points 14 years ago (28 children) | Copy Link

[–]Doctor_Loggins 4 points5 points6 points 14 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] -3 points-2 points-1 points 14 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]Doctor_Loggins 0 points1 point2 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Demonspawn -3 points-2 points-1 points 14 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

[–]Doctor_Loggins 3 points4 points5 points 14 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

And what I'm saying is, if "wearing a hoodie" is seriously one of the reasons you might kill someone, you need to re-evaluate your reasons. By placing the blame on the victim, REGARDLESS OF CRIME, you remove the burden of responsibility from each individual not to commit a crime. You are granting amnesty for criminal behavior because you are saying "it does not matter if the other party is not doing anything illegal or wrong; if they fail to be paranoid enough, they're fair game and it's their fault."

We live in a society based on law and order. We make ourselves vulnerable to all sorts of things on a daily basis because we have a reasonable expectation that our fellow citizens will not break the law, and that if they DO break the law, THEY WILL BE PUNISHED. Blaming Trayvon Martin for wearing the wrong outfit in the wrong part of town is tantamount to blaming him for not wearing a bulletproof vest everywhere he goes in case somebody decides to get shooty.

[–]Demonspawn 1 point2 points3 points 14 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]Doctor_Loggins -1 points0 points1 point 14 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]Demonspawn 1 point2 points3 points 14 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]Doctor_Loggins -1 points0 points1 point 14 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]Demonspawn 1 point2 points3 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]dangerpantz 7 points8 points9 points 14 years ago (14 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] -3 points-2 points-1 points 14 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]Doctor_Loggins 1 point2 points3 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I don't know if you two are being deliberately obtuse, but no, the clothing you describe is not the equivalent of a Klan uniform. There is no uniting ideology behind people who wear hoodies and have sagging jeans. It's a fashion style, not a uniform. Whether that fashion is associated with a repugnant social status quo is moot. The Klan is a single organization with a uniting hatred of very specific groups. People wearing those clothes are not. More importantly, freedom of expression means you can wear pretty much whatever you want (as long as you follow local decency ordinances) and have the reasonable expectation not to be met with violence because of it.

As to you, caninestrychnine, dangerpantsz's argument is only a strawman if the KKK metaphor is also a strawman. If you acknowledge one then you must acknowledge the other, because they're equally valid or invalid.

[–]Demonspawn -5 points-4 points-3 points 14 years ago (11 children) | Copy Link

[–]Doctor_Loggins 0 points1 point2 points 14 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link

I don't know if you two are being deliberately obtuse, but no, the clothing you describe is not the equivalent of a Klan uniform. There is no uniting ideology behind people who wear hoodies and have sagging jeans. It's a fashion style, not a uniform. Whether that fashion is associated with a repugnant social status quo is moot. The Klan is a single organization with a uniting hatred of very specific groups. People wearing those clothes are not. More importantly, freedom of expression means you can wear pretty much whatever you want (as long as you follow local decency ordinances) and have the reasonable expectation not to be met with violence because of it.

Then you'll have no problem doing it, right?

I wouldn't do it, but that doesn't mean it's legal to harass me if I do. Equal protection under the law means that shooting a KKK member in Harlem, shooting a young black man in a hoodie in a white Florida neighborhood, and shooting a six-year-old on a school playground are equally illegal. The presence of people willing to break the law does not invalidate that law. It does not make an act less illegal. It does not make a murderer less responsible for his murder because "they were totally asking for it."

[–]Demonspawn -1 points0 points1 point 14 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

I don't know if you two are being deliberately obtuse, but no, the clothing you describe is not the equivalent of a Klan uniform.

Bullshit it ain't.

There is no uniting ideology behind people who wear hoodies and have sagging jeans.

Except that they are extremely often thieves, thugs, or other lowlifes.

Whether that fashion is associated with a repugnant social status quo is moot.

Bullshit. If you dress and act like a "repugnant social status" then I'm going to fucking assume you are a member and will commit crimes like said repugnant social status!

More importantly, freedom of expression means you can wear pretty much whatever you want (as long as you follow local decency ordinances) and have the reasonable expectation not to be met with violence because of it.

Look, you wake up and join the real world any time you want.

I wouldn't do it, but that doesn't mean it's legal to harass me if I do.

I never said it would be legal, all I said is that you'd be dead.

It does not make a murderer less responsible for his murder because "they were totally asking for it."

And where have I said that? I haven't. All I've said is: If you want to reduce your chances of ending up dead, don't do shit that's likely to provoke people into killing you.

You can whine, bitch, moan, cry all bout "blaming the victim" all you want. I don't give a shit. Smart people, who live in reality, will always take the opportunity to recognize cause and effect and use those chains as advice to avoid the undesired outcome.

And then there's fucking idiots like you, who get so caught up on "ought" than you can't see "is"

[–]Doctor_Loggins 1 point2 points3 points 14 years ago* (8 children) | Copy Link

[–]Demonspawn 0 points1 point2 points 14 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

You're a libtard....

If you dress like a gang banger, people are going to treat you like a gang banger. If part of the definition of gang banger is "likely to commit crimes" people are going to treat you as a crime risk. If someone's job is security, they're going to keep a closer eye on you. If keeping a closer eye on you leads to a confrontation that ends up with you dead... then what's the solution?

To not treat gang bangers like gang bangers? Nope. Stupid.

To not assume that people who dress like gang bangers are gang bangers? Nope. Stupid.

To not dress like a gang banger if you don't want to be assumed one? Well now we're finally getting somewhere.

But you're entirely wrong.. Libtards like you with no connection with reality is what's killing this country. You have no capability of linking up cause and effect and that's proving to be fatal for our country.

[–]Doctor_Loggins -1 points0 points1 point 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]wskrs -1 points0 points1 point 14 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[–]Demonspawn 1 point2 points3 points 14 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]wskrs -1 points0 points1 point 14 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[+][deleted] 14 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–]Demonspawn 0 points1 point2 points 14 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] -3 points-2 points-1 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Title	Victim-blaming: not just for women. [X-Post from AnythingGoesUltimate]
Author	Doctor_Loggins
Upvotes	1
Comments	28
Date	March 24, 2012 2:39 PM UTC (14 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/rbesp/victimblaming_not_just_for_women_xpost_from/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/victim-blaming-not-just-for-women-x-post-from.1025353 https://theredarchive.com/post/1025353

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