I've been in an interesting debate about marriage with my uncle. This is my most recent email.

flagrantly_disregard · 2010-12-28T06:10:56+00:00

This is going to make Thanksgiving and/or Easter pretty awkward with said uncle.

You basically called him a dumb sack of shit.

melb22 · 2010-12-28T06:53:52+00:00

Problem is that cohabiting relationships have a higher rate of breakdown than married ones do. So it makes little sense to commit to cohabitation rather than marriage.

pdxpogo · 2010-12-28T06:26:52+00:00

you seem to have it all figured out and need no advice. Go be an "authentic man" whatever the fuck that is.

snoopyzanus · 2010-12-28T07:05:09+00:00

Another reason for my suspicion of marriage is that it figuratively castrates a man. Pardon my inflammatory language. The only men I know my age who are married are goody two shoes, and pretending to be so. It has cost them their authenticity.

If a man is castrated by marriage, he never had any balls to begin with. I'd never marry such a passive doormat, less a husband and more a servant. A man who changes entirely for fear of his wife's wrath isn't worth my (or anyone else's) time, except perhaps that of his manipulative wife's.

If I was looking at a car with these types of reliability figures I'd pass.

What's really funny is that most cars DO have statistics like that - they begin breaking down in around 5-6 years after purchase.

If you need a marriage contract to keep you together, you don't have the other, more vital factors in place.

The only thing in this email that I agree with. But then, you shouldn't be getting married if you need the marriage contract to keep you together.

All in all, I think you're missing the point, especially concerning the divorce statistics. The concept of marriage is not the problem, rather, it's the way we're romanticized love. To quote xkcd: either your love is pure, perfect and eternal, and you're story-book compatible in every way, or you're lying when you say "I love you". A marriage has it's ups and downs, and the problem lies in the fact that we, as a people, are ill-prepared to deal with the downs. We live in a society that loves instant gratification, where the idea of working for something long-term like a happy marriage is too difficult and unreasonable a request when it's so easy to jump on Ashley-Madison or something and find a new flame that will inevitably die out in a few years again. To suggest that the concept of marriage is flawed is both naive and closed-minded: marriage may not be for everyone, but for some, it's the deepest declaration of love, for better or for worse, and that's a worthy concept if I've ever heard of one.

Of course, since you've managed to disregard the the trials and triumphs of an entire generation in a single sentence while simultaneously suggesting that you're better than all of the rest of them, I doubt you'll want to hear my thoughts on the matter.

And for future reference, you should post the email that you're replying to so we have context for your arguments and so we can see both sides of the argument. It's difficult to avoid calling you biased when we don't even get to see what the other side of the debate has to offer.

pcarvious · 2010-12-28T06:19:42+00:00

Can't make an argument or decision without hearing the other side.

IRageAlot · 2010-12-29T14:46:44+00:00

You don't mind debating with your uncle and calling him stupid but all you can do is downvote the people of redit instead of offering counter arguments.

thetrollking · 2010-12-28T09:29:02+00:00

Marriage is retirement for women. The wedding is her victory lap. Fuck marriage.

taumeson · 2010-12-28T19:55:56+00:00

Pragmatically marriage provides for continuity in the case of accidents, such that the public at large is provided an easy to reference legal framework in which to enact whatever it is needs to be enacted to respond to said accident. Property rights, visitation, debt continuance, etc. In addition, it's also a public way to say "hey, I love somebody...word"

Plus, shame (and its sister emotion guilt) have a place in society and civilization. They are important tools to uphold those morals you think are magical and just simply happen for their own sake. They're also ways to enforce the group dynamic, which, at this point in time, is more liberal and accepting than any other point in time, yet still needs to have some reference framework for what is right and wrong. You, being ever so enlightened and shameless (herp derp, "immune to...shaming language") are basically saying that you are either perfect or above reproach, in whichever case, you are not part of society and the mores that we have and have chosen to keep as a social contract.

IRageAlot · 2010-12-28T19:24:49+00:00

What does this have to do with MensRights?

Your pessimistic assumption that marriage acts like a binding agent to keep a relationship together, instead of mutual attraction, kids, etc, is ridiculous. Whats more ridiculous is that you think the "sake of children" is a better glue to keep a relationship together.

You show your stupiditity in thinking that two people who are mutually imcompatible should stay together for the better of their children. Two sets of happy parents and a chaotic visitation schedule is healthier than 1 set of shitty parents.

I didn't marry my wife to keep my relationship together, I married my wife as an expression of how I felt about her. It's an expression of commitment.

There is no argument on my part that most marriages suck, that people get married for bad reasons, that marriages often go on long after the couple stop loving each other because that marriage license makes them feel "stuck". These are aspects of humans making bad decisions, not aspects of marriage in itself, as a stand alone concept, being bad. Just as a statistic of 50% of knifes are used to commit crime does not demonstrate that knifes are bad, it only shows that they are an instrumentation the bad people choose to carry out their act. If not a knife, then a bat, rod, or stone. If not marriage, then the "sake of the children", or a mortgage.

The same logic can be applied to marriage stifling the spirit of a man. They aren't changing their behavior because of a piece of paper, if they change it at all, they are changing it because of the relationship. Not to mention that that entire paragraph about figurative castration is absolutely unfounded non-sense. Consider the following example:

I've noticed that men who drink wine aren't real men at all. They are just push overs. If I'm going to hang out with someone they need to drink beer, like a real man.

You don't seem to even know what you are attacking, you knowledge is coming from a lack of experience, and also seems to be based on the actions of people who have made shitty decisions in regards to marriage. Do not doubt those those people would be in a shitty situation regardless of wether or not the concept of marriage existed.

Your closing makes you sound like an elitist prick by the way.

EDIT: Upvoted so more people can read your bullshit.

Title	I've been in an interesting debate about marriage with my uncle. This is my most recent email.
Author	[deleted]
Upvotes	5
Comments	32
Date	December 28, 2010 5:59 AM UTC (15 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/esf0z/ive_been_in_an_interesting_debate_about_marriage/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/ive-been-in-an-interesting-debate-about-marriage.1044915 https://theredarchive.com/post/1044915

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