Teen Male likely to be forced to have a child with his former teacher/rapist.

[–]ZeroBugBounce 23 points24 points25 points 15 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

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[–]thetrollking[S] -2 points-1 points0 points 15 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

I don't agree.

Since we don't know the facts of this case then let's look at the worst possible scenario.

Thought experiment: She raped him, he's 12, and it wasn't just date rape or stealing his sperm from a condom or some shit but instead he got the shit beat out of him and violated in the worst ways possible by her...maybe she even pulls a lorena bobbit at the end of the rape.

She gets pregnant.

She wants the kid. He doesn't.

Why should she be able to destroy a young life and then be rewarded with a new life. Even if he doesn't pay CS or have custody, it's likely that one day he will see the child(esp. if he lives in a small town) or worse in many ways he might start looking at the children around him and wonder and wonder and then be 'triggered'(or whatever) by the experience.

I think this type of scenario, regardless of the degree of violence and violation, is one of the few times a woman should be forced to abort.

I don't give a fuck if it's her body. She has likely destroyed a young males mind and possibly his body(stds and so on) and next his life.

The truth is that when you are convicted of a crime you lose certain rights. One is the right over your life and to some degree your body. If you go to jail the first thing that happens to men is they are sexually assaulted against their will(cavity searches) because they have lost that particular right over their body because of the crimes committed. Now I don't agree with this but until the prisons and legal system are reformed women should be held to the same standard.

I realize the two concepts don't line up perfectly, cause women are the only ones getting preggar...

Now there are all sorts of things that can complicate this matter like how far along she is and her medical conditions and so on.

But to simplify this let's assume she is caught and pleads guilty within 6 weeks of being pregnant? The procedure, abortion, is minor at this stage. If our goal is to bring justice while limiting the amount of harm to the victims, then how is abortion so terrible. She get's a outpatient procedure and he doesn't have to know that his genes are walking around somewhere cause of a rapist.

A few things. I see women and feminist esp. talk about how pregnancy creates permanent changes to womens bodies and often times it's in the context of abortion....wtf? Unless we are talking about the incredibly rare(so rare that there are only less than 100 actual surgeries) cases misnamed late term abortion, there is really no damage done to the woman. We aren't talking about birth but instead abortion. If caught early it doesn't have the changes to the womans body.....Hell, most women will become pregnant and then spontaneously abort or miscarry within the first few weeks(usually before she even knows she is positive).

Now let's look at it risking her life? It's possible, although rare, that abortion or a early trimester pregnancy could cause some problems risking her life...but she is a fucking criminal. Criminals die all the time from wounds suffered during their crimes. Whether it's the yearly thiefs that get stuck in a chimney and die or the ones getting shot or their ass kicked by the wrong victim or because they live a life of crime and come into contact with all sorts of shit that can cause them to die...hell, men die from tasers due to cops.

Then on another analogy I thought of is the fact that we sterilize many rapists and sex offenders of the male gender.

Either we argue for female privileges for female rapists and criminals(like feminists) or we recognize that the parasite or tumor in her stomach is nothing more than that. It may be the result of her crime spree where as the male inmate probably doesn't have tumors because of that but our prison system gives medical care to prisoners(many times against their will, like meds and stuff) and I see no reason to treat her parasite as anything more than a medical issue needing to be taken care of to help the victim and to provide reasonable care for the inmate so they can serve their sentence.

Again. I think this is probably the one area where women shouldn't have the right to bring life into the world.

Hell, THINK OF THE CHILDREN! for a moment. What's more ethical and humane? Infringing on her rights a lil or bringing a child into the world that is the result of rape(I thought I had mommy issues huh?) and then put it in foster care or maybe give it to her grandparents(the same people responsible for turning her the way she is) or what? How is that potential kid going to have any real shot at a decent life?

Anyways, downvote away feminist trolls ;)

[–]InfinitelyThirsting 1 point2 points3 points 15 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

There is a difference between forced rape and stat rape, first of all. Anyone guilty of forced rape should not be forced to have an abortion, but their child should certainly be confiscated at birth.

I'll even get behind you and support sterilization of rapists, and child abusers and child killers, no matter their gender.

But sterilization is different from abortion. Imagine, if your argument is that a rapist doesn't deserve to have a child, that a man convicted of rape has a pregnant wife at home. Should that pregnancy be terminated because he is a rapist? Never without the mother's consent.

It's a biological inequity. Confiscate the child at birth, don't require raped or defrauded (turning the condom inside out, etc) fathers to pay any support, but it's incredibly unethical and immoral to force an abortion.

[–]thetrollking[S] 0 points1 point2 points 15 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]dmuppet -1 points0 points1 point 15 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

I think the problem I am having with your opinion is you are comparing force-able rape and statutory rape. He should have to bear the responsibility of bringing a child into the world. No one FORCED him to have sex and he should deal with the repercussions. In many states 16 is the age of consent.

What really bothers me is

Again. I think this is probably the one area where women shouldn't have the right to bring life into the world.

That shouldn't even be an argument. Under no circumstances should a woman be forced to have an abortion. That is ludicrous. I could see him not having to physically/emotionally/monetarily be tied to this child, but forced abortions is ridiculous.

Just my opinion, but your take on things definitely made me think about our society and the gender roles we assign. Many times I started to type something and immediately erased it after reversing the roles.

[–]TheEnlightener 0 points1 point2 points 15 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

You say this...

I think the problem I am having with your opinion is you are comparing force-able rape and statutory rape.

And then this...

Under no circumstances should a woman be forced to have an abortion.

So you're saying that even if it was forced rape, she still shouldn't be ordered to have an abortion.

What was your point again?

More importantly, you give no reasons why she shouldn't be ordered to have an abortion.

I believe this is because feminists have told you your whole life "my body my choice", and you aren't one to think too hard on why you feel the way you do.

It amuses me that you didn't even bother to give any reasons why a woman should never be ordered to undergo an abortion procedure, you just feel that way because. "That is ludicrous." WHY?

It amuses me even further that you don't even know WHY you feel that way.

And it amuses me that you have already made your decision, but you will scramble for reasons why later.

One who comes to a decision and only then finds or makes up support for his conclusion is not a thinker. He is a stupid sheep.

This is also how feminists think.

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[–]CaptSnap 5 points6 points7 points 15 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Youre referring to the double standard. Girls are victims, men are aggressors. A guy cant be raped, he must have wanted it. Its a stereotype in society that, as a Men's Rights Activist, we've got to fight to reverse. Its absolutely detrimental to not only young men but also all men. It comes up again in child custody cases. Its difficult for a father (who is probably just half a second away from raping everyone in the court room because men cant control their sexuality or their aggression) to win custody against a mother (who is a victim of men and was probably abused and driven to divorce).

The stereotypes are destroying us. I (and many many others) have discussed some stereotypes that are borne from misinformation and false studies (1 in 4 college aged women will be sexually assaulted, women only make 70 cents for every dollar a man makes) with no other intention than to further a cause contrary to ours.

Though I cant speak for everyone (and many may add or detract) the general consensus would be that rape is rape, regardless of gender. It is absolutely a crime and it is absolutely wrong.

It is a crime made even more heinous when the perpetrator is in a position of authority over a minor. Children in school, even high school, are just not adequately prepared to defend themselves against an adult whom they've been conditioned for the last decade to trust and confide in and we should not expect them to be. Raping a student is an egregious breach of trust, not only to the individual but to all the other students, the parents, and to the community. It is a dissolution that undermines an entire educational system. Of course we are against it.

The fact that rape against young men is seens as "less of a crime" is only a chilling reminder that we still have work to do. Its just one, of many, blatantly ridiculous stereotypes that we must counter.

[–]thetrollking[S] 2 points3 points4 points 15 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Wow. Lots of things in your post.

There are several issues at play, and probably more than I am willing to type out right now.

First the cultural aspects that say women are 'the fairer sex' or more nurturing and so on are created from many different sources. Most are women who tell it to other women and men(or boys and girls, I call this female marketing for the benefit of the female herd/collective) and since women raise men, and pretty much always have, we internalize it and believe it cause we foolishly think women have our best interests at heart cause we want to please them(it's called projection, google it.)...some of this comes from feminist rape and pedo hysteria that demonizes men. Some comes from religious groups and go to a local church and count the number of women v. men???....

Then there are biological differences between the sexes. Boys and girls mature at different rates, both biologically, sexually, mentally and emotionally/psychologically. Women have their first sexual experiences earlier than men and they also chase older men, while men tend to go the same age or slightly younger. This is one aspect of female hypergamy.

Then there is the difference in sex functions/drives/motivations between men and women. Believe it or not women are more sexual than men and men are more emotional than women(again, projection).

I like the analogy of women being free flowing streams(both sexually and emotionally) and men being guisers. For ex/ I was mostly raised by women and my entire life I heard girls say things like "you know how men are" or "men only think with their small head" or "men think about sex all the time." But if you stand back and look you will realize that again, PROJECTION! The speaker is telling you more about themselves than they are about men as a group. So women basically project their sexuality onto the male collective during our most formative years(one reason every civilization I have ever read about had male only rituals at the start of teen years is to counter this effect, today the patriarchy is dead). This is why you see so many men defining themselves based on the number of notches in their belt. It doesn't work for most men, even the hardcore players I have known eventually became emotional wrecks because men bond more deeply to women(we can usually control our emotions better than them though, while we have more trouble controlling our sex drives). Hell, most of the top PUAs eventually had psychotic breakdowns and one had to be hospitalized for depression and suicide attempts.

To get to the point about men being seen as fine or congratulated. let's look at what I just wrote. Women don't believe men have emotions, look how they talk about men not having emotions or we have too many and have a tiny lil glass ego. This is partly mens fault in some ways, cause we project our emotional states on women. We want them to love us the way we love them, they want to fuck us the way they think we want to fuck them(look at stereotypes on male sexuality, almost always commented on and created by women but men do mimic it).

Some of this also comes from male expendability. We are assumed to be independent and not in need of help, esp. not from women, so we are pushed to be so. We are basically only valued for what we give to women and the collective. Just think of words like loser and creep and how we treat homeless men.

Another aspect of this is how women evolved a different protective mechanism than men. men tend to charge forward and fight while women tend to be passive aggressive and use social shaming and controls...They project a image of helplessness so men will come and help. This ties into women being seen as the fairer sex.

Another thing is how male sexuality v. female sexuality is not valued in our society. Male sexuality has pretty much a negative value, while womens has a positive value(look at advertisements and the media).

One more thing. Have you noticed how women always go to sex first in a situation with men. if it's a guy walking down the street, omg rapist. If a guy talks to her at work, omg, sexual harassment. If she sees a father walking with a child, omg pedo....then they claim that all men think about sex like they do???

And yes, I do think most guys have trouble understanding the situation and contexts that it happens in because it hasn't happened to them and we all had one teacher that we thought was hot/daydreamed about...didn't you guys?

I hope I made some sense typing this out. I need sleep. But there is the FAQ on the sidebar and it has some more info. Stick around and welcome to the MRM brother.

[–]numb3rb0y 11 points12 points13 points 15 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

I'm sorry, but a 16-17 year old is entirely capable of consenting to sex, even if the law says they are a minor. This wasn't rape, and it seems insulting to victims who actually were coerced to use that term. "rape" is when someone is forced to have sex against their will, and given that it was an "affair" over the long term and the "victim" was above the age of consent in the larger part of the Western world and even some North American jurisdictions, I don't see how you can reasonably claim that's what happened. Statutory rape is a different crime for a reason; it's called "statutory rape" because it normally wouldn't be considered rape if a statute hadn't explicitly criminalised it. I'm not endorsing a double standard, for the record; whatever society's opinion I'd think exactly the same thing about a 16-17 year old girl. Up until very, very recently from a historical perspective, people were considered adults long before that, and human physiology hasn't changed since then.

[–]PierceHarlan 4 points5 points6 points 15 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]numb3rb0y 0 points1 point2 points 15 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I see your point. I suppose my problem is that in my country, the age of consent would have meant that this wasn't statutory rape, let alone rape, although there are lesser offences based on a teacher being in a position of trust, and I tend to agree that there should be some consequence for that, I just wouldn't call it rape. 16 as the age of consent seems fairly common in the West, so a big part of the world does deem teens at least ready enough for sexual relationships with adults that no-one should be prosecuted for them, although there might well be social disapproval.

In terms of the double standard, I absolutely agree with you, but like I said above, I personally don't see the situation as any different if the genders were switched, and again legally where I live it wouldn't make a difference either. In my opinion the appropriate way to deal with that double standard would be to afford girls of that age the same ability to make their own choices about who to have sex with as society tends to afford boys, not to take away that afforded to boys.

Furthermore, if I were to accept that something immoral and deserving of criminal penalties transpired here, I'd still be very cautious about calling it rape. I can't help thinking that if you stop rape being a black and white issue and apply it where consent was perhaps a grey area, you open the floodgates for things like "rape through deception" or sex between two intoxicated parties being classed as rape. It doesn't necessary have to involve violence, but rape should require a clear and unambiguous lack of consent, and even if there are questions about whether a 16 year old can fully consent it still doesn't rise to that standard.

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Title	Teen Male likely to be forced to have a child with his former teacher/rapist.
Author	thetrollking
Upvotes	52
Comments	51
Date	December 1, 2010 2:19 AM UTC (15 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/ee8w2/teen_male_likely_to_be_forced_to_have_a_child/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/teen-male-likely-to-be-forced-to-have-a-child-with.1045548 https://theredarchive.com/post/1045548

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