Men should be more than breadwinners

NiceGuysSTFU · 2010-10-28T13:39:44+00:00

Thoughtful article. Thanks for sharing. Some points:

As long as men continue to feel threatened by the possibility of being perceived as wimps and wusses unless they live up to the norms of conventional masculinity, we can expect little economic progress for women.

I agree with this, but I think the ramifications are more far-reaching than women's economic progress. (Not to mention that some women who assert conventionally "masculine" traits are also socially punished or shamed for doing so.)

Feminists need to be on the front lines of documenting how conventional masculinity disadvantages men as well as women.

Many of them are, based on my readings. At least the more contemporary ones.

The literature on fatherhood sends a stark message: All fathers are not equal. Breadwinners married to homemakers earn 30 percent more than those in two-job families and encounter favored treatment at work. One study found that fathers were held to lower performance and commitment standards than were men without children, presumably because respondents assumed that since a father “has a family to support,” he will work hard.

Wow - this is shocking, and terribly unfair. It is a fairly privileged position in this day and age to be able to have a stay-at-home parent, so I would imagine that this phenomenon affects lower- and middle-income families much harder.

One study found that men are often penalized for taking family leave, especially by other men. Another found that men with even a short work absence due to a family conflict were recommended for fewer rewards and had lower performance ratings.

Such b.s. that this happens. I am so grateful that I work for an institution that has equitable parental leave policies for childbirth, adoption, and childhood illnesses.

Men are caught between an old-fashioned breadwinner ideal and an economic era that no longer delivers the family wage...

A friend's wife recently took a second job in order to pay down some of her debt. I've talked to them both about it - he is in school as well as working full time, and earns a much higher wage than she does. She works full time and has a second part-time job. They have a toddler. My friend is guilted that he isn't the one taking on the second job (even though he is also in school and it is her debt) and his wife is guilted that she isn't spending enough time with their daughter (even though they both spend nearly the same amount of time away from their home). Sad that in 2010 these ideals still persist.

eesalto · 2010-10-28T15:45:30+00:00

Typical feminist BS,trying to hide the fact they are degrading males by claiming masculinity is the problem. I've never heard of the best fathers I've known being called wusses. The real issue here is lack of equal parenting rights. Any man knows how easy his kids can turn into child support as his wife can turn into alimony. Even if equal parenting rights are established women will still choose men because they are rich, the pressure to sacrifice for a career is simply harder on men.

2010-10-28T17:40:05+00:00

I know that my dad feels the pressure of being basically just a breadwinner. I grew up in a traditional family structure and my dad is basically working his ass off to support my mom's spending. I think if there weren't these rigid structures my dad wouldn't feel emasculated when the family doesn't have enough money (well, my mom's standards). We could get by with half the money my dad makes, and then he could actually take weekends off and be with his kids.

The worst part is that he loves what he does, but the pressure he gets from my mother makes it so stressful for him. It pisses me off, but my dad is incredibly traditional as well, and would never allow my mom to work.

akrabu · 2010-10-28T19:01:16+00:00

My wife is the bread-winner. She is better suited for working and I am better suited for child rearing.

Besides the fact that she is better at keeping and maintaining decent employment, it is much easier for women to get work that isn't dangerous or unhealthy and pays reasonably well.

melb22 · 2010-10-29T07:04:44+00:00

Now why would feminists be encouraging men to be stay-at-home dads?

Isn't it because they view the male career role as being privileged? And therefore they think the female interest will be served best by men doing the family stuff whilst women go out to work?

What is the MRA answer to this? Surely it's not to agree that the role of men is simply to prop up female individualism - which is how many feminists see the role of men.

I think the answer has to be that the feminist valuation of things is wrong - that being the breadwinner is not a privilege for most men in the way that feminists assume it is.

Second, I think we have to reject the feminist idea that gender roles are created entirely by socialisation. In general, men will gravitate toward the more socially competitive career role, whilst most women will gravitate toward the more maternal role.

It's better, therefore, for MRAs to accept that most men will continue to be breadwinners and to seek to uphold the role - to make it a liveable and important one - rather than to assume that men and women are simply going to reverse traditional roles over the next 20 years or so.

thetrollking · 2010-10-29T08:50:12+00:00

As long as men continue to feel threatened by the possibility of being perceived as wimps and wusses unless they live up to the norms of conventional masculinity, we can expect little economic progress for women.

I am sick of articles trying to change men for womens benefit. Women and feminists have no right to determine what or how masculinity is expressed.

Il128 · 2010-10-28T16:09:01+00:00

breadwinners

I think she meant "cogs in the machine"

2010-10-29T00:03:31+00:00

Why? We have evolved to be the bread winners. Women should stop being dykes and get back in the kitchen or GTFO.

Nissespand · 2010-10-28T13:45:30+00:00

We dont have to do anything. The scenario is inevitable

Title	Men should be more than breadwinners
Author	kloo2yoo
Upvotes	20
Comments	21
Date	October 28, 2010 1:03 PM UTC (15 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/dxop6/men_should_be_more_than_breadwinners/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/men-should-be-more-than-breadwinners.1046428 https://theredarchive.com/post/1046428

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