"...one of my main objections to the book is 'Who the hell cares what these women or anyone else thinks, who died and made them the arbiter of manhood?'"--A self-proclaimed feminist's surprisingly excellent critique of a disgusting example of how men are treated in the media

2010-10-01T15:05:18+00:00

The book may be another blatant example of sexism towards men but, to me, this book really isn't the issue here; the issue is this culture of sexism against men, strict male gender roles which are still very much being reinforced and shaming/disdain towards men who fail to meet those expectations(especially by women in the context of dating), all of which are still largely being ignored(which, ironically considering the source of this article, is largely reinforced by this perpetual cycle of confirmation bias towards sexism against women, which comes both as a result of feminism and preexisting cultural biases/behaviors; creating an environment where sexism against men is ignored and sexism against women is overstated). This book is simply highlighting those sexist expectations, or female entitlements, and capitalizing on the men who wish to make the best of the situation they're in(although, while it might help those men in a way; they are still, in the big picture of things, reinforcing the idea that this type of sexism is an acceptable or justified way of life).

2010-10-01T16:06:06+00:00

Really nice to see this attitude from a feminist and the calling out of other feminists was the best part. Until I read this:

Don't be freaking hypocrites. Women cannot demand equality and liberation, and then demand that men pay our way.

Good to see a woman saying it.

lilac3680 · 2010-10-01T18:23:09+00:00

I'm in agreement and highly entertained by her rant. Thanks.

jsnef6171985 · 2010-10-01T16:36:56+00:00

Great article! Written by a fantastic kind of woman that understands that women's rights doesn't mean shitting on men. A rising tide raises all ships.

InfinitelyThirsting · 2010-10-01T13:55:58+00:00

Saw this in TwoX, and was so pleasantly surprised by the attitude of the author, especially since she seems to be expecting other feminists to read it. I don't think I've ever seen a self-proclaimed feminist blogger so emphatically call out female hypocrisy, or address the standards some women expect men to attain. I have no idea what the rest of her writings might be like, but at least this is a refreshing change of pace from normal feminist blogging.

Some of my favourite quotes:

"There are some fascinating exhortations about class in this book as well -- exhortations that make the link between class and masculinity vividly clear. In order to be dateable, men have to not give off signifiers that they're blue-collar or working class."

"Plus the authors of this book are obsessed with money and maleness to an almost comical degree. Men have to pay. Period. They have to pay on the first date; they have to pay on every other date; they can't use half-off coupons on dinner dates; they have to pay for valet parking. It's like reading Emily Post from the 1950s. If I might offer my own "Don't" to the ladies who authored this book: Don't be freaking hypocrites. Women cannot demand equality and liberation, and then demand that men pay our way. At full price." (emphasis added)

"What makes them think modern masculinity is so fragile that the entirely normal, even fundamental human activity of loving animals -- and the entirely reasonable decision that you like cats better than dogs -- puts it into peril? What makes them see this obvious signpost of "nurturing and willing to make a commitment" -- qualities that modern straight women are famously looking for in men -- as so repulsively feminine it renders men completely unfuckable?"

"Why do they tell men to be themselves, do what they like, and tell the world to stuff it... and then write a 184-page how-to manual for anxious self-consciousness, describing in detail how the things men like are appalling?"

carbonetc · 2010-10-01T16:03:00+00:00

I visit her blog often (she has excellent posts on the subject of atheism). She is definitely not one of the misguided feminists.

ThrustVectoring · 2010-10-01T18:48:14+00:00

Here's what my wife Ingrid said when I was ranting to her about this book: "There are a million different ways to be a man, and there are a million different ways to be a woman." And we each need to find out for ourselves what being a woman or being a man means for us... and how we want to express that.

Its a lot more than a million, since apparently activities such as owning a cat are part of being a man or woman. Apparently everything you do is part of being a man or woman. If you do one thing per minute, and you have to choose between an average of 10 things to do for each minute, and you are thirty years (15 778 463 minutes) old, then thats approximately 10^{16 million} ways to be a man or woman.

Much, much more than a million.

</autism>

ThrustVectoring · 2010-10-01T18:51:16+00:00

Why do they tell men to develop their own swagger... and then spend 184 pages describing the exceedingly narrow window in which that swagger can take place?

There's actually a decent reason for this - the difference between breaking social conventions out of ignorance or through deliberate action.

If you ignorantly break social conventions, then you are a social klutz. If you deliberately break them, you are boldly forging your own way.

In other words, you have to be aware of social conventions in order to pull off deviating from them.

PrincessofCats · 2010-10-01T23:32:04+00:00

As a die-hard feminist, I say: Epic. It's nice to see people out there saying what I'm thinking.

2010-10-03T04:39:55+00:00

while we arent fans of feminists we have to give credit where credit is due

bravo to whoever found this and the writer

SpencerDub · 2010-10-01T15:49:48+00:00

Greta Christina is an excellent writer on a number of topics, one of which is sex and gender roles. Cool to see this brought up.

thetrollking · 2010-10-01T14:40:04+00:00

Dude, I upvoted this and then went and read it and got about three paragraphs in and now your getting a downvote.

WTF, this is nothing but a lame attempt at appropriating and colonizing male rights issues. She doesn't want men to question this on their own terms without feminists and female permission and guidance because then men might come to some conclusions that might not benefit women and feminists.

This is nothing but more lame attempts at appropriating, manipulating and controlling the mrm. I have noticed a real uptick lately in feminist appropriation pieces and their constant meddling and trolling into the manosphere....I guess feminism is really losing it's control or monopoly over gender issues now that so many boys have come of age with it being shoved down our throats. This is one big reason the mrm is growing in popularity and even more is why so many feminists are always trying to distract and appropriate male issues. It seems to be almost a daily thing for feminists to come into the mrm and tell men to calm down and let's be friends, not all women are like that.

fishwish · 2010-10-01T14:38:32+00:00

I hate to say this but let's be realistic. Some men do need dating advise. I sure some of the author's advice is bullshit. And some of the advice is spot on.

And on the bit of this:

"Plus the authors of this book are obsessed with money and maleness to an almost comical degree. Men have to pay. Period. They have to pay on the first date; they have to pay on every other date; they can't use half-off coupons on dinner dates; they have to pay for valet parking.

Well, that just might be part of being a realist. The bulk of the women want and expect this. And if are not at least offering to pay up front, you won't be well received. You can be as upset about this as you want, but that doesn't change the bulk of women's expectations.

InfinitelyThirsting · 2010-10-01T14:25:07+00:00

it's not that she has a problem with women telling men what they like in a man, it's just that she does not like non-feminists telling men what they like in a man.

Basically she hates men and wants men to behave more like women, because masculinity == rape. similarly she wants women to behave more like men, because all positive masculine traits are entirely learned and they ought to be learned by women who will not use them to rape.

thus she gets angry with women who openly admit the womens sexual prefferences:

The primary thrust of this book is that men ought to be manly -- but not too manly. They can't be girly or sissy... but they can't be macho gorillas, either. They have to find a perfect, razor-thin window of perfect masculinity. And they somehow have to not be self-conscious or anxious while doing it...since that's not very manly."

She does not like this because she beleive that gender is a social construct and we need less masculinity in the world, because masculinity ==patriarchy, except when women are masculine, of course.

Basically feminism is so outdated and idiotic that even when you read a "suprisingly excellent" feminist critique it still reeks of wilful ignorance and bigotry.

2010-10-02T03:26:16+00:00

It doesn't matter to me at all, because the only thing a feminist is good for is fucking. Period. Well, and perhaps as a friend, if she puts up with me slamming feminism constantly.

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