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Are we teaching our kids to be fearful of men?

Starch

July 5, 2008

31 upvotes

/r/MensRights

http://online.wsj.com/public/article/SB118782905698506010.html

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Post Information

Title	Are we teaching our kids to be fearful of men?
Author	Starch
Upvotes	31
Comments	19
Date	July 5, 2008 2:59 PM UTC (18 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/6qdlf/are_we_teaching_our_kids_to_be_fearful_of_men/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/are-we-teaching-our-kids-to-be-fearful-of-men.1057445 https://theredarchive.com/post/1057445

Comments

[–][deleted] 12 points13 points14 points 18 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 18 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]workerdaemon 1 point2 points3 points 18 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]elissa1959 0 points1 point2 points 18 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]kanuk876[🍰] 0 points1 point2 points 18 years ago* (3 children) | Copy Link

You're trying to avoid blame.

Women need to step up and take responsibility for their hand in creating the world we live in. It's not all men's fault. That's all the OP is trying to say.

Nobody here is saying men don't commit crimes. We all know men commit crimes. But plenty of people are saying, or implying through omission, that women's crimes are negligible. They're not. Women are hurting children, and instead of addressing the issue, everyone seems hell-bent on making sure there are no male elementary school teachers or daycare workers. Brilliant.

I suspect there's a reason we behave this way: we all know that if we start vilifying women the same way we've vilified men, there won't be anyone left to take care of our kids.

And we're far, far too attached to vilifying people to change now. North America is all about finding the culprit, the guilty party, and punishing them. Punish punish punish. Grind the bastards into the ground.

Meanwhile, Atlas is shrugging.

[–]elissa1959 1 point2 points3 points 18 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

I'm not trying to avoid blame, and I'm very clear that women are abusers as well as men. You know nothing about me.

Just saying that the breakdown of "66% of abuse is performed by women" has to be within the context of a percentage of care taking events, so we can even talk about what's going on.

I'm more of a mathematician and the numbers have to be reflective of the reality.

It would also be good to know the number of incidents of care taking vs number of abuse events. (And sorry about the language, my intent isn't to make it sounds clinical. I know that these are real human being being hurt and real human being perpetrators.)

While no abuse is good, we do have to be aware or how mathematics works: if a child is abused one time in 18 years and that 18 years is composed of 125,000 hours of supervised care (that's about 80% of the time), then most cases of abuse are outliers and making any suppositions about safety is meaningless.

So, what are the numbers? Saying 66% of abuse is caused by women is as meaningless as saying "men are dangerous".

I suppose from background knowledge that even the rare experience of meeting a creep isn't the deep concern (although it might be the most horrifying extreme). The concern would be how to give children the tools and confidence to report and stop abuse from very early on, because it's the repeat abuse from presumably trusted sources that causes long-term psychic damage.

[–]kanuk876[🍰] 0 points1 point2 points 18 years ago* (1 child) | Copy Link

So, what are the numbers? Saying 66% of abuse is caused by women is as meaningless as saying "men are dangerous".

I apologize for my incendiary remarks. I believe figures like "66%" are useful in fighting the notion that it's 0%-2%, which is what you'd think if you had only conventional wisdom and the mainstream media as information sources.

Everyone needs to be involved. There are no scapegoats. I believe we can agree on this point.

The concern would be how to give children the tools and confidence to report and stop abuse from very early on, because it's the repeat abuse from presumably trusted sources that causes long-term psychic damage.

I'm not a therapist (IANAT), but based on my experience and readings... the problem is sticky.

First, you can't force someone to care. If a father and mother won't look after a kid, what do you do? You can't force foster parents to care either.

Second, abuse is in the experience of the victim. It doesn't even have to involve a perpetrator - a car crash can cause emotional trauma.

What's important is support following a potentially-traumatic event. For example, some rape victims are traumatized by their experience and some are not. Many victims report the rape itself wasn't traumatic, but rather it was how they were treated afterwards (by family, police, the courts).

The victims who do not develop trauma following their event share a common trait: they have people around them who are supportive and validate their emotions. The proverbial shoulder to cry on. People who understand and are willing to witness the victim's grieving process.

If people believe their feelings are understood, accepted, and validated by those around them, they have a much better chance of pulling through with minimal long-term impact.

In my elementary school adventure with a pedophile, my parents didn't help me even though I told them what was happening (think about that!) The administration knew he was a pedophile and moved him from school to school to school - a new school each year. Just like the priests we've all heard about. Frankly, there was nobody I could have gone to for help unless I hiked down to the police station myself, and I didn't know what to report even if I had thought of that.

Then what am I advocating? I believe solving child abuse requires a complete revisioning of how we treat and view children.

For example, suppose there had been a therapist on staff who was able to help me understand my feelings and give me the validation I needed, when I needed it. I might have been saved 30 years of living a tortured sub-life existence. But for me to fully trust the therapist, I would have required the equivalent of a lawyer-client privilege. You see the problem with this.

This is basically what I'm advocating: children's rights. The child's right to privacy, information and emotional support outside the family unit, outside control of the school hierarchy.

I duno. Just my thoughts as someone who's lived through hell, and is now re-living it through healing.

[–]elissa1959 0 points1 point2 points 18 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]kanuk876[🍰] 0 points1 point2 points 18 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 18 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]kiriel 3 points4 points5 points 18 years ago* (1 child) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 18 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]myshrm -2 points-1 points0 points 18 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

[–]kanuk876[🍰] 9 points10 points11 points 18 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

On the one hand, it does make sense since most (but not all) predators are men

Your statement contains more lie than truth. To call it a half-truth gives it too much credit.

See The Invisible Boy: Revisioning the Victimization of Male Children and Teens

Your comment is only true if you reduce child abuse to child sexual abuse. If you include all forms of abuse (emotional, physical, neglect) women are slightly more likely to perpetrate, and boys are more likely to be the victim.

But even at that, women are perpetrators, and boys the victim, far more frequently than most people understand. To start with, female perpetrators and male victims are both grossly underreported.

Any therapist will tell you, abuse is abuse. The details differ, but all abuse objectifies the victim and may result in emotional trauma.

I know your comment represents the 'conventional wisdom' and is repeated like a mantra. But your comment is simply counter-productive to a constructive debate. It's propaganda. It serves either a political or personal agenda.

This issue is consistently framed in such a way so as to give men a bad rap and give women both their victim status and their can-do-no-wrong privilege. Neither men nor women deserve the role they've been cast in this disgusting propaganda.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 18 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]myshrm 1 point2 points3 points 18 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]kanuk876[🍰] 0 points1 point2 points 18 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]elissa1959 0 points1 point2 points 18 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]kanuk876[🍰] 1 point2 points3 points 18 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link