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Women opinion of Forced Military Service of men in Singapore

SamaelET · 2021-01-12T16:56:22+00:00

https://www.vice.com/amp/en/article/qjp4qb/we-asked-singaporean-women-about-serving-in-the-army-heres-what-they-said "it is not about men but...

SamaelET

January 12, 2021

15 upvotes

/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates

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Post Information

Title	Women opinion of Forced Military Service of men in Singapore
Author	SamaelET
Upvotes	15
Comments	13
Date	January 12, 2021 4:56 PM UTC (5 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates/comments/kvvhnt/women_opinion_of_forced_military_service_of_men/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates/women-opinion-of-forced-military-service-of-men-in.1062131 https://theredarchive.com/post/1062131

Comments

[–]Round-Chicken4596-6 points 5 years ago [recovered] (13 children) | Copy Link

They bring up decent points, the first one doesn't have a well put together argument but it was a decent read, this is just an opinion peace. Conscription shouldn't be a trump all to shut down gender equality discussion. Conscription is in my opinion shitty but sometimes necessary. Maybe not 2 years... Yikes, even Finland bordering Russia 'only' has 12 months. The interviewees bring up different ways to bring service to the nation as a sort of reconciliation instead of conscription such as work in hospitals but I think that's even more unjustified. You can make a case for government enforced conscription in a democracy to defend itself from outside threat but forcing people to work regular jobs is just plain slavery.

[–]OkLetterhead10left-wing male advocate 13 points14 points15 points 5 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]Round-Chicken4596-5 points 5 years ago [recovered] (3 children) | Copy Link

If it's going to be enforced at all it should be enforced on the population as a whole in accordance to the ability of those who are able. That includes men and women. I agree that it's only on men who hold that burden currently, trust me. But to send women to work socially acceptable jobs and justify it because men are forced into conscription is a slippery slope.

[–][deleted] 5 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

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[–][deleted] 5 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

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[–]a-man-from-earthleft-wing male advocate[M] 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]SamaelET[S] 5 points6 points7 points 5 years ago* (5 children) | Copy Link

So women are not equal citizen. And should not have equal power.

The first one, instead of how to compensate, give benefits and privileges to men for their sacrifice she just wants to keep going on how to help women. She derails a conversation about how to ensure equality when men are disadvantaged toward "let's focus of women".

"Different ways" are not equal ways. Working in a hospital is far from the sacrifice of men forced in military.

Being forced into a job in hospital is slavery but forced into being canon fodder is acceptable.

I think our values are far too different.

But don't get fooled. When they say that gender equality discussion are shut down by men, what feminists really means is that men :

1)oppose the narrative about "female oppression" and "male privileges"

2)say how these discussions are only about inequality that touch women while ignoring those benfiting women

3)say the truth: men contribute more to the country than women while not having any privilege for it

[+]Round-Chicken4596-2 points 5 years ago [recovered] (4 children) | Copy Link

So women are not equal citizen. And should not have equal power.

That's sexist.

The first one, instead of how to compensate, give benefits and privileges to men for their sacrifice she just wants to keep going on how to help women. She derails a conversation about how to ensure equality when men are disadvantaged toward "let's focus of women".

As noted above she doesn't have a well put together argument.

"Different ways" are not equal ways. Working in a hospital is far from the sacrifice of men forced in military.

I agree, military is much more tolling and that is not what I said. I was pointing to the proposed solutions they give to this un-equality.

My point was two wrongs don't make a right. Yes conscription is bad but at least there is a case for it. I wanted to point out that there is no case to be had for forcing people work ordinary jobs such as hospital jobs that's just slavery with the justification "there are other people suffering so should you".

[–]SamaelET[S] 2 points3 points4 points 5 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]arcrenciel 2 points3 points4 points 5 years ago* (1 child) | Copy Link

Singaporean here. That woman who claimed that she went through "NS"? She most likely entered the two week training program for women. That's a glorified chalet. This woman has no idea.

Some people say that female soldiers on Pulau Tekong (an offshore Singapore island dedicated exclusively to military use) are "treated better" than male recruits or aren't pushed as hard. Personally, I didn't feel there was a big difference in my field training as compared to the guys.

Bitch, no difference? Come talk to me after you finish the 32km route march, while carrying 20kg of equipment. This shit is mandatory for people actually serving National Service. Your 2 week chalet doesn't even have this. Does your field training also involve digging a trench up to chest level, using nothing but a hoe? Then spending the night in that trench, while it fills with rainwater? No? There's no way this woman didn't know the differences between what she went through, and what the men go through. She's either a truly clueless airhead, or she's being disingenuous.

And because of that, she doesn't mention that there are plenty of vocations that women can do in the army. Regimental police, driver, clerk etc. There's always a shortage of manpower because of Singapore's declining birthrates. You know why these women are proposing things like hospital jobs, instead of proposing to fill these military vocations? Because these hospital jobs are actually useful workplace experience that you can put in your resume, as compared to military experience which is worth fuck all in a corporate setting. Men here don't even bother to list military service in their resume because they know employers don't care. The only reason employers ask you to produce the cert that proves you served NS, is because the only men who don't serve, are those who have serious mental or medical conditions, and they want to exclude you from the job if you don't have the cert.

[–]PricklyGoober 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]lorarc 6 points7 points8 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Back when there was military service in my country you had 4 choices: 1) go to university and hope they won't draft you in after you finish (it did happen but rarely) 2) go to the army 3) get an exception and if you're lucky you're going to work in a hospital instead 4) go to prison. Women didn't have any obligations.

We may talk about how men are better suited for the army and if it's necessary but still we're putting a lot of burden on just one gender and letting the other enjoy all the benefits. We can of course ammend the wrongs but having somethin different in mind for the women, those found unfit for service and those exempt. Like higher taxes for people that didn't go into the military or lower retirment age for those that did. But personally given the choice I still would rather take that over military service.

And when we're talking about slavery do remember that not everyone is going to spend their time in the army being a hero. Someone's gonna spend their whole service in the kitchen cooking food, someone's gonna spend it in the laundry, someone's gonna spend it driving a truck. In my country the soldiers would build building for the military and often even go out and help build the roads, dig ditches and sometimes even work the fields (yay communism!), and I'm leaving out of it the people who were forced to work in the mines during their military service because even for communism that was too far. Even regular soldiers will spend a lot of time doing common tasks like cleaning.

It's always slavery unless you rely only on volunteers and reward them justly without bullying anyone into joining.

[–]Zinziberruderalis 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link